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Post by WelshChappie on Jun 21, 2014 5:00:42 GMT -8
Well in regards to Zodiac's choice to use Cherry Street to get to Jackson and then Maple, I think his hand was forced, the decision was taken out of his hands & control and initially he may have intended to backtrack along Washington to get to Maple but he went dwn Cherry St instead and his probable reason for doing so can be found in the words of Armond Pelissetti....
"We responded to a radio call that told us that a cab driver was being robbed and/or possibly assaulted at the corner of Cherry and Washington Streets in Pacific Heights. We, (Himself and Frank Peda) fortunately, were very close and responded to the scene and were able to do so with red light and siren, and got there very quickly"
Armond, as we know, was responding along Washington Street coming from the direction of Spruce St, Maple St, then finally Cherry. He specifically states that he got the radio call, activated his emergency lights & siren, and sped to Cherry Street along Washington. Barring Zodiac being deaf or very hard of hearing, there is no doubt in my mind at all that he hears Armond approaching along Washington St and as such, disappears down Cherry to avoid him. In doing so, he run's into fellow responders, Don Fouke & Eric Zelms. He could probably see the lights of Armonds vehicle coming directly toward him, aswel as hearing the siren.
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Post by Mike on Jun 21, 2014 15:27:05 GMT -8
Hi WC,
Well, I am not certain that AP came from that direction. I believe AP may have come up Cherry from Clay. Z had already left the cab and had reached the corner of Jackson right when AP arrived, regardless of where he came from. That much I do know from the eyewitnesses. So Z intended to head north and was not compelled to do so by the sirens, unless he heard them from a long way away...
Mike
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jun 22, 2014 14:39:19 GMT -8
Hi WC, Well, I am not certain that AP came from that direction. I believe AP may have come up Cherry from Clay. Z had already left the cab and had reached the corner of Jackson right when AP arrived, regardless of where he came from. That much I do know from the eyewitnesses. So Z intended to head north and was not compelled to do so by the sirens, unless he heard them from a long way away... Mike Hi Mike, so good to have you here ! I thought AP came from the direction you said. It was Fouke's and Zelms that came from the other direction I believe ? Z being closer to Zelm's side of the car. I hate to think that AP made anything up . Did I ever tell you that while looking up everything I and Ed N could find on KQ, I found another address on Jackson that KQ also owned ? My close friend Tony Dean was a good friend of KQ. Tony was a race horse owner who was from SF, his sister lived on Washington in PH.
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Post by Mike on Jun 22, 2014 15:35:07 GMT -8
Hi Sandy, No, I never knew he owned other property on Jackson. It was not 3712, was it? I also did not know about Tony Dean. Never heard of him. What did he have to say? Depends on how well he knew him. There were two KQ's--the one everyone knew from business, golf and the race track and another one that I pieced together over the years through my research and by interviewing the Stine eyewitnesses, etc. Aloof, distant, sought attention in the newspapers as far back as 1947, wrote on Monarch sized paper, etc. I watched the DVD again today and from what AP says, he came from the south or west, not the east. Mike
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Post by Sandy on Jun 23, 2014 21:52:20 GMT -8
Hi Sandy, No, I never knew he owned other property on Jackson. It was not 3712, was it? I also did not know about Tony Dean. Never heard of him. What did he have to say? Depends on how well he knew him. There were two KQ's--the one everyone knew from business, golf and the race track and another one that I pieced together over the years through my research and by interviewing the Stine eyewitnesses, etc. Aloof, distant, sought attention in the newspapers as far back as 1947, wrote on Monarch sized paper, etc. I watched the DVD again today and from what AP says, he came from the south or west, not the east. Mike Hi Mike, I believe I found that information at the recorders office. The next time I go there I will get you that address. I seem to remember that it was with in a few homes of the one we know he had on Jackson. My friend Tony Dean seemed to know KQ well, Tony also played golf although I don't remember him saying that he played golf with him. I think the connection was their race horses. He said KQ was a good man, Tony liked him a lot. But then Ann Rule thought Ted Bundy was nice. I was into the horse's myself and hung out at Golden Gate Fields, I wonder if I ever crossed paths with KQ?
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Post by MikeR on Jun 24, 2014 2:27:19 GMT -8
Hi Sandy,
Well, he was the president of GGF, so he was always at the track in the 1960s and 1970s. Is your friend still alive?
Mike
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Post by Sandy on Jun 24, 2014 9:12:01 GMT -8
Hi Sandy, Well, he was the president of GGF, so he was always at the track in the 1960s and 1970s. Is your friend still alive? Mike Mike, No he passed away about 6 yrs ago, but his wife is my good friend. She was not into the horses, so I don't know if she knew KQ or not, but I wll ask her when she returns from Paris in July. Tony's sister lived in PH up until a few yrs ago and I see her for holiday dinners, I will ask her if she knew KQ. They both know I have an interest in the Z case. I am trying to find proof that Gyke was not in Calif. on at least one of the Z crimes. So I am wondering if the passport control office will give out information on someones travel that has passed away ? I don't know how long they keep records ? Welch Chappie, if you are reading this, do you have any connections with someone who works in that field or have some idea how to get that information ?
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Post by WelshChappie on Jun 24, 2014 10:54:18 GMT -8
"He said KQ was a good man, Tony liked him a lot. But then Ann Rice thought Ted Bundy was nice."
You mean Ann Rule Hun :-)
One of the Qvale's lived in Presidio Terrace which, if you coming up Jackson St, is past Maple, Past Cherry, all the way to Arguello and it's rite by the Golf Course. Can't remember which Qvale lived there but I am 100% sure 'A' Qvale lived there and 99% sure that they were living there back in the 60's.
On the point of Kjell being a very generous and kind man, that seems to be everybody's impression that met and/or knew him. Earlier today I was reading something from The Chronicle that published the story of the charitable, caring Kjell Qvale who had just donated a large sum of money to a charity that takes care of injured horses and jockie's that have seriously injured themselves during a race and fall.
But Kjell was interviewed in that same article and he said a couple of things that, while it is easy to read into something he said as sinister when we're discussing his potential to be the infamous Zodiac, the comments are still none the less interesting.
Kjell had said similar to this many time in interviews so its nothing new but he said in this specific example:
"I don't want to spend Millions of Dollars on a Horse because it may never win a single race. I only remember the good things I have done in my life, and for 65 years+ now I have never been scared of a challenge and have taken many risks in my life so I really do not mind taking a risk, although sometimes that can be deadly."
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Post by Mike on Jun 25, 2014 2:29:55 GMT -8
Hi-
I know one of the sons lives or lived in PT but that would have been well after 1969. Did one of them own property there in 1969?
Mike
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Post by Sandy on Jun 25, 2014 11:56:27 GMT -8
I will check at the recorders office ,for anyone with that last name and give all of you the address's. If I stumble across any handwriting that would be good. Are there any samples of KQ's writing ? If so I missed it , because I don't read every post, never have enough time. So if there are some, please share. Thank's
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Post by Mike on Jun 25, 2014 17:29:24 GMT -8
Hi-
Check for property in Presidio Terrace, as well. One of his sons owned property there in the 1990s and 2000s. KQ's SSA application was posted with the others by Morf.
Maybe you can try to remember things that Tony told you about KQ. Did he spend much time with him at the races? Where? Mainly at GGF or n the fair circuit? Did Tony play golf at the big private country clubs in SF or did he ever play at public courses with KQ?
Thanks.
Mike
Mike
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Post by Sandy on Jun 26, 2014 9:19:58 GMT -8
Mike, When looking up property at the recorders office ,I put in the persons name, it will give me every property in that county under that name. It is alphabetical and by groups of years. I am pretty sure that I only checked for late 60's early 70's on KQ.
Tony made it sound like he spent a lot of time with KQ and that they even drank together. He didn't say if it was at a bar or at his home that I remember. Tony found it very hard to believe that KQ could be a suspect. He said he was a hard worker and didn't think he would have the time to go all over killing people. Plus the man was a real gentleman and seemed to be happy in his marriage. I remember asking if KQ spoke in a slow manner , monotonous, enunciating every word or a formal way of talking? He said no, it was normal conversation.
Whelch Chappie, I remembered Ann's last name a day or so later and corrected myself, but by then you let me know. Thanks, I do want to be corrected when I make mistakes.
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Post by Sandy on Jun 27, 2014 20:59:54 GMT -8
If it is true that the waitress across the street waited on the man who she watched get into that cab. Then she may have gotten a good look at the killer? It is my understanding the police did talk to the other cab drivers who were parked near Paul's cab. That was how they found out the killer sat in the front seat.
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Post by MikeR on Jun 28, 2014 4:48:46 GMT -8
Hi-
How in the world has this waitress flown under the radar for so long? I've never heard of her. Did she ever look at the sketch or sit with the artist? Hard to believe she was ignored. I can imagine people possibly noticing and remembering Stine's cab because the door had been bashed in and it would have stood out.
Mike
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Post by WelshChappie on Jun 28, 2014 14:19:12 GMT -8
Hi- How in the world has this waitress flown under the radar for so long? I've never heard of her. Did she ever look at the sketch or sit with the artist? Hard to believe she was ignored. I can imagine people possibly noticing and remembering Stine's cab because the door had been bashed in and it would have stood out. Mike The same could be asked Mike when it comes to the Eight year old witness in Presidio Heights. He/She not only saw the offender, but an official police report states that the eight year old "IDENTIFIED *REDACTED NAME* AS POSSIBLE SUBJECT IN THE MATTER."
Now this for me is the single biggest break in the entire case. Here we have a witnesses who, albeit 8 years of age, who physically identified an unknown male as the person who had shot the cab driver. And for such a huge piece of information and breakthrough in the case, it's only mentioned in 1 line of text at the bottom of a police report and that's it. No reports on any follow up questioning of this person, no nothing. Why? Well, in my personal opinion, the reason why they didn't follow up or make reports of a follow up investigation was because the eight year old witness had identified Kjell Qvale as the cab drivers killer.
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