Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 3, 2014 18:30:52 GMT -8
Hi Sandy- Either you are confused or you are speaking in different terms than I am. Do you feel the murder took place in front of the Augsbury home on Maple/Wash and not the Robbins home at Cherry/Wash? If so, how did the cab end up a block away at Cherry? Why would someone living at the Augsbury home have a good opportunity to see someone getting out of a cab a block away? It sure seems unlikely that Z drove the cab down to Cherry or that it somehow made its way down there uneventfully after Stine was shot. Mike The Augsbury home wasn't on Maple, it was at Washington and Cherry at 3799 Washington. Paul Stine was shot in front of the Augsburry home on the corner of Washinton and Cherry, not on Wasgington and Maple. Washington and Maple was where Zodiac told Stine he wanted to go. I am pretty sure that was on Stines trip sheet. But Stine was was shot one more block past Maple, at the corner of Washington and Cherry. The Robbins home was across the street from the Augsbury home, which was occupied by the Scaintrelli family, who had children. The Augsburry's John C and Mignon, both had died when the Scaintrelli's who worked for Mignon Augsbury, remained in her home, until it was sold to The Academy of Sciences. I am sorry if I am confusing
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 3, 2014 18:48:37 GMT -8
Hi Sandy- Either you are confused or you are speaking in different terms than I am. Do you feel the murder took place in front of the Augsbury home on Maple/Wash and not the Robbins home at Cherry/Wash? If so, how did the cab end up a block away at Cherry? Why would someone living at the Augsbury home have a good opportunity to see someone getting out of a cab a block away? It sure seems unlikely that Z drove the cab down to Cherry or that it somehow made its way down there uneventfully after Stine was shot. Mike The Augsbury home wasn't on Maple, it was at Washington and Cherry at 3799 Washington. Paul Stine was shot in front of the Augsburry home on the corner of Washinton and Cherry, not on Wasgington and Maple. Washington and Maple was where Zodiac told Stine he wanted to go. I am pretty sure that was on Stines trip sheet. But Stine was was shot one more block past Maple, at the corner of Washington and Cherry. The Robbin's home was across the street from the Augsbury home, which was occupied by the Scaintrelli family, who had children. The Augsburry's John C and Mignon, both had died when the Scaintrelli's who worked for Mignon Augsbury, remained in her home, until it was sold to The Academy of Sciences. I am sorry if I am confusing, I don't know how I can explain it any better ? Forget about Washington and Maple, everything important took place was at Washington Cherry. I am only putting the idea out there, that the people who were living inside the house across the street from the Robbin's (In the Augsbury home) could have had the 8 8yr old witness. I know they had children is why I am thinking that. Besides the Robbin's home, the only other good view of the cab and Zodiac ,would be the people living in the Augsbury home. Those people were the Scaintrelli's, who had children. I hope that helps ?
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Post by Mike on Jul 3, 2014 20:43:40 GMT -8
Hi-
Augsbury owned the home that Hunter would later own. Check it out on a map: 3799 Wash is at Maple. 3899 Wash is the Robbins' home and is at Cherry. The Schiantarelli's lived in Augsbury's home at Maple, not at Cherry. You've got 3799 and 3899 mixed up, I think.
Mike
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 3, 2014 21:32:35 GMT -8
We were both wrong about the spelling, the correct spelling is Schiantarelli.It was William R.Schaintarelli who was the gardener for the Augsbury's. He was the one who lived at 222 Maple. In the 1969 criss cross city directory it showed Mignon Augsbury as still living at 3799 Washington and Cherry. But it was found later that Victor and his wife Erica Schiantarelli were the ones living there.
(At that time there were two homes on Maple that were under "construction")
3799 is the home at Washington and Cherry. I just went on line to check the SF city directories Those directorys are on line now thank goodness. 3799 was the house that we were all told Hunter lived at in Oct 1969, Ed and I proved that was not true, Hunter was still living on Lyon at that time. Harry Martin was surprized when I let him know that.
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 3, 2014 22:07:10 GMT -8
Ok Mike I went to the map and it is wrong , I know that sounds nuts, but it is showing what you said about it being closer to Maple. Sometimes these sites are not correct. If you go to the 1969 polks city directory, then look up Mignon Augsbury, it will give you 3799 as her address. She had some pull , because the last 4 digets of her phone number were also 3799.
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Sandy
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Zodiac Killer Mystery Moderator
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Post by Sandy on Jul 3, 2014 22:40:52 GMT -8
I just checked The Robbins address and yes it shows 3899 Washington near Cherry.It also shows that it is a medical/ Dental building. 3799 says it is close to Maple. But when you go to that 3799 house, it is across the street from the Robbin's. I will be in the city tomorrow ,if I can get over there again, I will take a picture of the house and its number. It is hard to believe that the house we have been to so many times has a different address than what we have been posting about all these yrs ?
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Post by MikeR on Jul 4, 2014 0:15:30 GMT -8
Hi-
How can an add numbered house be opposite an odd numbered house? The house across Washington from the Robbins' has to be even numbered. In PH, all the homes on the north side of a street (like KQ's) are even numbered.
Mike
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 4, 2014 8:59:56 GMT -8
Hi- How can an add numbered house be opposite an odd numbered house? The house across Washington from the Robbins' has to be even numbered. In PH, all the homes on the north side of a street (like KQ's) are even numbered. Mike You know what they say about blonds? LOL , You are correct, all these yrs I thought the house was 3799 and it is 3898 ! Now I am looking at the people who lived in that house, the VanHafften's. So Far it looks like they may have had a daugher named Heather, who is living in Los Angeles she would have been about 10yrs old not 8 at that time. Sorry for all the confusion I had it in my head that the Augsbury home was of interest because it was the house on the corner od Washinton and Cherry, but now I know it was because of Hunter, who I did a lot of looking into. Thanks for making me get my head back on straight. Too much bleach I guess ?
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 6, 2014 10:25:34 GMT -8
I thought AP was coming from Cherry and making a right onto Jackson ? If that was the case, wouldn't he have to be looking left to see KQ at his house ? He would have to be coming down Jackson from Maple and turn his head to the right in order to see KQ, which was it ? Zelm's and Fouke's came from Maple correct, that is when they saw AP coming towards them, who then told them the unsub was a white male ,or am I completely screwed up ?
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Post by MikeR on Jul 6, 2014 15:17:59 GMT -8
Hi Sandy-
AP said he met KQ at the corner of Jack/Maple, not Cherry. Then he said he FIRST spotted KQ in his front yard. His head isn't turning, it's spinning.
Mike
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 7, 2014 6:51:42 GMT -8
Hi Sandy- AP said he met KQ at the corner of Jack/Maple, not Cherry. Then he said he FIRST spotted KQ in his front yard. His head isn't turning, it's spinning. Mike LOL, a lot like my head was a few posts back. Somehow my post explaining I was sorry and very wrong about which house was which, ended up in the middle of the mix making it seem like I still didn't get it. Back to AP, he was not alone in his car Frank Peda was with him. I wonder why we don't hear from him ? I read that they first pulled up behind Stine's cab ,took a look at the victim,then took off and made a right turn onto Cherry then another right onto Jackson and that was when he informed Fouke's and Zelm's about the unsub being a white man. Is that what you read as well ? That would put KQ house on his left. Lets try to find Frank Peda ?
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Post by WelshChappie on Jul 7, 2014 11:24:09 GMT -8
I thought AP was coming from Cherry and making a right onto Jackson ? If that was the case, wouldn't he have to be looking left to see KQ at his house ? He would have to be coming down Jackson from Maple and turn his head to the right in order to see KQ, which was it ? Zelm's and Fouke's came from Maple correct, that is when they saw AP coming towards them, who then told them the unsub was a white male ,or am I completely screwed up ? The 2008 'Revised' version for the documentary 'This is the Zodiac Speaking' says that Don and Eric first saw A.P as they turned onto Cherry Street as A.P was walking back to the scene and Don & Eric stopped and that's when, they claim, A.P told them the suspect was white.
However, in the 80's Don Fouke gave an onscreen interview for 'Crimes of the Century' in which he says, and I quote: "The individual I saw that night was a White Male Adult approx. 35 to 45 years of age, 5 ft 10 inches tall & 180 to 210lbs. Since we were looking for a Negro Male Adult we proceeded on Jackson Street towards Arguello continuing our search. As we arrived at Arguello Street the description of the suspect was changed to that of a White Male Adult. Believing that this suspect (the one they had just driven past) was possibly involved in the shooting, we turned onto West Pacific Avenue which is the other side of the wall and conducted a search."
So in the 80's Don doesn't even mention seeing A.P anywhere on route to the scene that night and says after passing the White Male at Maple he & Zelms continued on Jackson toward Arguello and that it is as they arrived there at Arguello that the description was changed.
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Post by WelshChappie on Jul 7, 2014 13:31:39 GMT -8
Whichever way you look at it, their accounts have changed and counteracted each other, with Don Fouke admitting in 2007, a full 38 years after the fact, that the suspect he encountered hadn't last been seen by him going North on Maple toward the Presidio like he had claimed in his November 69 Memo and that he had actually last been observed as he turned and went up steps that led to a driveway to the front door of a house. 3712 Jackson to be specific. So, there is no question or argument to be had as to 'if' either or both these cops are not telling the truth and/or holding crucial info back because we know beyond all doubt that that's exactly what Don Fouke did for Thirty-Eight years.
Someone should remind Don and/or Armond of the Law Maxim that states: Justice Delayed is Justice Denied.'
If either or both are withholding anything that it is in the public interest to be made aware of then what Don & Armond are doing is denying the families of the victims their long overdue closure.
And if they are doing that, I hope they get charged as co-conspirators in the Death of Paul Lee Stine and a Judge issues arrest warrant's for them on charges of obstruction of justice, assisting an offender in the commission of a felony and failing to do their duties as a sworn Police Officer. Paul Stine was executed in cold blood while trying to earn a living. Paul can't speak for himself, his life was snuffed out on October 11 of 1969 so it's up to those who swore an oath to uphold the Law and serve and protect the people to hold Paul's murderer to account for what he did and anybody, I don't care whether they be A Vagrant or The President of the United States himself, if the are conspiring to conceal evidence and obstructing Justice that is owed to Paul, then they are just as guilty as the lunatic that actually pulled the trigger that night.
JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! Hope anyone concealing or withholding knowledge of something that occurred that night that they saw, remember that Legal Maxim!
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 7, 2014 20:05:40 GMT -8
I agree WC and I feel that people like Debra Perez and the such, need to spend some time in jail for obstruction of justice as well! I hope that the changing of the stories told by LE, is that their memories have faded and not a cover up or out and out lies.
And yes AP was on Cherry turning onto Jackson , so he wasn't coming from the other direction, which was the direction that Fouke's and Zelm's were coming from. At least that is what I thought I read ? I have walked it many times, it is not that long of a walk.
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Post by ophion1031 on Jul 12, 2014 23:58:14 GMT -8
Maybe Qvale hid Z at his house. Sandy, will you ask your friend if Qvale was friends or acquaintances with a man named Bill Thoresen? A crazy theory I am working on.
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