Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 13, 2014 7:51:44 GMT -8
Maybe Qvale hid Z at his house. Sandy, will you ask your friend if Qvale was friends or acquaintances with a man named Bill Thoresen? A crazy theory I am working on. Sure I would be happy to ask my friend about Bill T. Will you be signing onto this site other than a guest, so you will know when I have the answer for you ?
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 13, 2014 21:14:30 GMT -8
Maybe Qvale hid Z at his house. Sandy, will you ask your friend if Qvale was friends or acquaintances with a man named Bill Thoresen? A crazy theory I am working on. Sure I would be happy to ask my friend about Bill T. Will you be signing onto this site other than a guest, so you will know when I have the answer for you ? I have a lot of information on Bill Thoresen, his wife Louise killed him in 1971. He was 6 ft 2 and too thin to be Zodiac, if that is what you are thinking ? He was not in Calif. Oct 30th 66 ,he was in Chicago and then NY where he was arrested. in Dec 66. He had lived at 2801 Broadway S.F., his phone was 921 9100. He had a friend George Livermore at 213 Cherry st S.F.who was an architect. He was a suspect in the Valerie Percy murder Sept 18th 1966 in Ill. His birthday was 10-9-37 He had many arrests NY ,AZ, S.F. He had a lot of illegal firearms yet he did not know how to shoot any of them. I hope that helps with what you wanted to know about him ?
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 14, 2014 23:31:06 GMT -8
Yes it appears that all they were thinking about was ,” find the black shooter”, without any regard for public safety.
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 16, 2014 21:47:23 GMT -8
I will never believe Zodiac went into the park, I have always felt he watched everything from inside of a home, knowing he was safe doing that.
The dogs would have found him if he hid in the park.
I feel very sure that he did not drive away that night like some think. He knew too much about what was going on to have left.
It is too bad that they didn't check to see who was picked up in that area earlier that day, he had to get there somehow if he didn't drive there. I would check out every pick up from that area for the whole day. It would be interesting to see how many there were, I don't see Zodiac taking a bus to get downtown.
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Post by MikeR on Jul 17, 2014 2:32:34 GMT -8
Hi-
The other subtle dead giveaway is that he described the sounds of the search. You could only have done that if you stayed in the area.
Mike
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Post by WelshChappie on Jul 17, 2014 8:19:53 GMT -8
I will never believe Zodiac went into the park, I have always felt he watched everything from inside of a home, knowing he was safe doing that. The dogs would have found him if he hid in the park. I feel very sure that he did not drive away that night like some think. He knew too much about what was going on to have left. It is too bad that they didn't check to see who was picked up in that area earlier that day, he had to get there somehow if he didn't drive there. I would check out every pick up from that area for the whole day. It would be interesting to see how many there were, I don't see Zodiac taking a bus to get downtown.
Sandy & Mike, here is the view from the upstairs rear window in Qvales Home, 3636 Jackson Street:
Attachments:
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Post by WelshChappie on Jul 17, 2014 8:22:36 GMT -8
As is evident, from this vantage point Kjell can see the Presidio Grounds to the left, and Julius Kahn Park to the right. Perfect place to observe the search effort from.
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Post by MikeR on Jul 17, 2014 12:00:07 GMT -8
Hi-
Yup. Excellent view...and that is today. Who knows if those bushes were there in 1969...
Mike
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Post by WelshChappie on Jul 17, 2014 13:47:15 GMT -8
Zodiac said he was 'Crack Proof' and people usually assume that this is simply another egocentric brag made by him similar to his 'Police shall never catch me because I have been too clever for them" comment.
These two claims are Worlds apart in reality. It's one thing to say your too clever to be apprehended, and quite another to declare yourself 'CrackProof.'
To brag that you will never be caught because you are too clever for your pursuers is self explanatory. He's simply saying that his remaining at large is down to his own brilliance.
To declare oneself 'Crack Proof' is to imply something totally different. For example, if I say "I am bullet proof" then I probably am implying that I wear body armour that physically won't allow bullets to penetrate by torso. I cannot simply be bullet proof unless there is a shield between myself and a bullet fired at my chest.
Crack Proof is no different, it implies that no matter what police do, it's simply not possible for him to be held accountable for his crimes because, like the bullet proof vest analogy, there is a 3rd party or outside influence at work that will shield him from being caught.
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 18, 2014 8:19:26 GMT -8
For so many years I kept posting my thoughts about Zodiac hiding in plain sight that night inside of one of those mansions. Most felt he had a car there , that he took off which made no sense to me, because of him describing what he could see and hear.
I have my own suspect and have no idea if KQ and he knew each other or not, or if that was the house Zodiac watched everything from? But I truly believe he was in someone’s home watching that night.
Ricardo and I were in one of the homes which had a window facing Julius Kahn playground this past year. It had a basement room that looked like it had been a small apt , with a door that lead out to Pacific Ave. While standing there looking out, I had the creepiest feeling that Zodiac could have once stood there.
The police were focusing on the park area, when all they would have had to do is turn around to see Zodiac watching them is what I believe.
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Post by WelshChappie on Jul 21, 2014 17:45:47 GMT -8
For so many years I kept posting my thoughts about Zodiac hiding in plain sight that night inside of one of those mansions. Most felt he had a car there , that he took off which made no sense to me, because of him describing what he could see and hear. I have my own suspect and have no idea if KQ and he knew each other or not, or if that was the house Zodiac watched everything from? But I truly believe he was in someone’s home watching that night. Ricardo and I were in one of the homes which had a window facing Julius Kahn playground this past year. It had a basement room that looked like it had been a small apt , with a door that lead out to Pacific Ave. While standing there looking out, I had the creepiest feeling that Zodiac could have once stood there. The police were focusing on the park area, when all they would have had to do is turn around to see Zodiac watching them is what I believe.
I agree with you Sandy in regards to the theory of Z having his car waiting in the area. For me, there is next to no chance this idea is correct. Zodiac isn't stupid. The 'Son of Sam' David Berkowitz's reign of terror was ended because he had left his vehicle in the street where he was planning to kill later that evening and kill later that night he did. He then ran to his waiting vehicle to escape the area only to find some nice Cop had ticketed him for some parking infraction. The ticket was tracked and discovered to have been issued the same day of the shooting and Psycho-witz was caught.
If you have a vehicle waiting and walk to it then your essentially committing yourself to one route of escape......The Road. On foot you can go absolutely anywhere. House, garden, Presidio, dark ally, anywhere you want and you can do it covertly, silently and easily. Once you trap yourself inside a metallic rectangle then you have only one option available to you and that is to stay on the road and hope that your headlights don't attract attention to you driving away along with the sound of the engine etc and if you are spotted by an eagle eyed Cop (or citizen who calls cops) and he speeds after you with lights activated and siren blaring then, Zodiac is up the creek without a paddle!
We know he came from somewhere near Mason & Geary that night so he'd have to have taken and left any vehicle he was going to use for his escape on Jackson, maybe Washington Street, in Presidio Heights earlier that day or evening.
If I was a betting man.....which I am lol, my money would be on 'No car waiting in Pacific Heights, escaped on foot' scenario. And probably to the sanctuary of a home in the area somewhere. He was in his comfort zone to kill at W&C streets and walk the area to get to wherever he was going. Serial Killers have comfort zones in which they strike, usually area's the know very well and feel comfortable in. Zodiac didn't shoot Paul with the idea to rush to the Presidio to run around in the foliage trying not to get lost for a few hours, that I am sure of.
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Post by WelshChappie on Jul 25, 2014 5:38:27 GMT -8
Thanks Mike,that hair is important, it gives us the true color of Zodiac's hair.(reddish brown) WC, Zelms wife has said that he told her, they did speak to the person they believe was Zodiac. He was very upset by that. She had nothing to gain by making that claim, I do believe she told the truth. His partner must then be lying or forgot ? Yeah I have heard that said around internet sites regarding Eric's widow. In a Court of Law this would be inadmissible as evidence because it's hearsay. I am not saying I don't believe the claim online that she confirmed Eric told her they had stopped Z, it's probably true and accurate. But until I hear the lady herself say that Eric told her that he and Don stopped someone then there will always be people to challenge the idea and claim and ask "Where's the evidence that Eric's widow made any such comment?"
Same really with Kjell Qvale. It's pointless arguing whether Kjell was walking his dog or was standing on a driveway because Qvale denied even being is Pacific Heights and Armond Pelissett first said it was Kjell, then denied it when asked later, finally just alluding to A man with his dog.'
I believe Kjell was there, as does Mike. Kjell denied being in the area and he's no longer here to cross examine and the Officer who is at the root of this controversy said it was Kjell, then said it wasn't Kjell, said he was walking a dog then remembered that Kjell wasn't walking a dog on the sidewalk but standing still on a driveway "At Maple Street."
I mean the simple reality is that while I believe KQ was in Pacific Heights and Jackson Street at or around 10:00pm on October 11th of 1969, if we were asked to prove it or show evidence to support the notion, I could not do so because I have none other than the 3rd party information telling me he was there. Armond is alleged to have told Mike Butterfied of Qvale's suspicious presence on A Driveway that night, and in turn, Mike Butterfield needed to confirm something in Armonds account and contacted MikeR and gave him this information who then published it at ZKS.com where I first came across the story.
No doubt in my mind neither Butterfield nor MikeR are lying in this claim and I would believe with an almost certainty that AP did tell MB, MB then told MikeR who subsequently posted the information. While I believe it, A Judge in a Court of Law wouldn't and dismiss it as hearsay unless Armond testified to the validity of the claim himself as a direct first person witness.
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Post by WelshChappie on Aug 5, 2014 7:25:50 GMT -8
I can understand why Zodiac got pissed off with the Blue Pigs in the end. Even he said "I have grown rather angry with the police for their telling lies about me."
They still the same Z, one minute you were last seen 'Going North on Maple Street' then FF 38 years and Officer Fouke elects to 'come out' and reveal 'well, when I say North on Maple Street toward the Presidio, I mean up some steps and onto a property on Jackson St.... Don't believe me oh sceptics?? 3712 Jackson St, I never put it in my report, and I don't think I ever told anyone. I didn't think about it in the report because I assumed I could lie my way out of it. I don't know if he did live there, or if he didn't live there... let the Inspectors follow through while I consume some doughnuts. And we have all bases covered because when someone asks 'why didn't you at least stop and speak to this male as he could be your man? then I will simply invent another lie and fictional storyline to explain this away also by simply telling the World that a SFPD Emergency Services Dispatcher is not only incompetent, but mind-bogglingly retarded that when a call comes in offering to report a robbery/assault in progress and it's passed to the dispatcher, he or she sprints to their radio and announces "ALL AVAILABLE UNITS RESPOND TO AN ASSAULT AND ROBBERY IN PROGRESS AT THE CORNER OF CHERRY AND WASHINGTON STREETS IN PACIFIC HEIGHTS. SUSPECT IS A BLACK MALE, I REPEAT, BLACK, NOT WHITE, BUT BLACK MALE.'
So you see Z, they can't decide where you were, on some steps or ducking into Maple's Presidio entrance. Haven't got a clue what race/colour you are and are apparently all charging around Pacific Heights arresting every Black Male they come across, and Mr Pelissetti remembers standing on Jackson St at Maple Intersects and... 'I turned to the right and saw a man walking his dog...." which later becomes "No, wait, that's slightly inaccurate....Yes that's it, I remember now, he didn't have any dog at all and he himself was not even on Maple Street but was standing in a residence driveway just standing there looking all suspicious and appeared to be hiding out of street vview and the passing patrol cars. I told him to please get out of the area ASAP as there is an armed and dangerous man hiding somewhere in the very close vicinity and he could even be on someone's driveway!
I see why you would enjoy needling the Blue Pigs now Z.
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Aug 7, 2014 22:12:04 GMT -8
Mike R. Ricardo and I went to S.F. I looked for the other address I told you about, it was 3630 but when checking further found it was a typo. Attachments:
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Post by WelshChappie on Sept 10, 2014 6:25:07 GMT -8
Recently, I've been wondering and questioning the accuracy, or the likelihood of, Pelissetti to be correct in his estimation that the person responsible for shooting Paul would have walked off down Cherry St with obvious & visible blood stains on his trousers and/or jacket. Armond, speaking about Don and Eric alegedly stopping and speaking with a suspect on the night in question says with conviction for an episode of 'Cold Case Files'
"He (Fouke) didn't see any blood on this persons clothing and Believe me, based on the Crime Scene, there would have been a lot of blood on that persons clothing had it been Zodiac."
So, just how accurate is that comment? If Passenger is seated behind Paul slightly to the left when he pulls the trigger, any spatter that would leap from Paul's head would do so to the right of Paul's position with Z sat behind and to the left. Blood spatter or impact on Clothing of killer, minimal to none.
Now people are going to say "Yes, but the teen witnesses stated that they saw Zodiac in the front passenger seat with the driver, specifically drivers head, slumped over and resting on the lap area of a seated Zodiac." Well, indeed, if this were the case then Armond would be absolutely correct and the offender would be literally blood soaked. I myself, having recently seen an extremely graphic and disturbing crime scene video where a cab driver is shot directly behind the ear by a passenger seated behind him, believe me when I say, blood literally runs from the nose like a stream flows down a Valley. The Cab in this recent instance had , unbeknown to the assailant seated sinisterly behind the driver, been fitted with a mini cam installed in the passenger door facing directly across the cab at the driver.
If the witnesses (or witness, as we are not sure if one, two or all three saw and gave a statement to the fact they had observed the Offender with the driver slumped over his lap) were mistaken, and we have only in recent years learned just how unreliable eye witness testimony can very often be, then maybe Paul's head never was resting on the offenders trousers. The kids said the cabs overhead light was on and initially/instinctively the natural assumption would be that this fact offered the witnesses an even better, far clearer view of the cabs interior. However, light in certain circumstances can actually do more harm than good because we don't have sayings such as 'It was a trick of the light' for nothing. Shadows could be cast in certain directions making something appear to be what it actually was not. I mean lets be honest, if Zodiac wanted to obtain Paul's Wallet and tear off a swatch of his shirt, then he could simply have walked to Paul's drivers side, opened the door, and would only need to reach in and collect his prize. Why enter via the passenger side, grab Paul's lifeless body, pull it over onto your own lap area when your aware his head and facial area are bleeding profusely in order to go through the victims pockets?
In Short, I don't think, if Zodiac was a rear seat passenger, he would have any visible or noticeable red stains on his garments at all. I think the far more likely and plausible scenario took place that saw the offender lean in to the cab yes, but lean over the corpse of the dead or dying Driver.
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