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Post by WelshChappie on Sept 15, 2014 20:00:15 GMT -8
He and Armond know something or saw something that night that they are being 'encouraged' to forget about, i'm sure of that from the many versions of what happened they have both given over the years and Fouke in one interview holds eye contact with an interviewer until the interviewer asks Fouke about second guessing himself and asks "You should have stopped & talked to him?" Fouke then avoids eye contact and looking away says "Should have stopped & talked to him, (looks back at interviewer briefly and looking away and back again in classic sign of deceit says) but we didn't."
Here's the clip, starting at 3:25 -
Don comes across as a man who has knowledge he neither asked for nor wants, and his all round dimena says he carries a heavy burden that he simply didn't ask for. Armond looks straight at you and smiles when lying to your face, he simply doesn't seem at all bothered, probably telling himself it isn't his problem or business, as even Fouke said: "Let the Inspectors follow through." Absolve themselves of all responsibility by doing so. I wish sometimes that I could find a way to prove beyond any doubt that Don did not allow the White Male to walk away into the night because he had been told the suspect was Black, and give the real reason why he did not apprehend the White Guy. No report, No interview on screen, No mention at all of an incorrect description of Black Male given at all anywhere not until Mr Zodiac writes 'PS - Two cops pulled a goof' and details all about how they saw and even stopped him that night on Jackson. Then, and only then, do we hear the "Yes but we had a broadcast come over the radio to BOTL for a Negro Male Adult, so that explains away our reasons for not detaining and searching the White Man we spotted." How Convenient, total crap and rubbish, but convenient for the gullible to swallow all the same.
Lyrics of Limahl's classic song come to mind regarding The Zodiac Case: "Those that keep their secrets, will unfold behind a cloud, but there upon a rainbow, is the answer to a never ending story."
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Post by WelshChappie on Sept 15, 2014 20:53:42 GMT -8
The current SFPD Chief, who's name eludes me for the moment, didn't tell two of his detectives that if they ever ask for the Zodiac case files to go over on their own free time again, he'll have them re-assigned to desk duties for nothing. What's with the Chief and such a hostile, angered response to a perfectly reasonable request? What's buried in the files that he doesn't want being made public? Well, Armond Pelissetti knowns what it is that's in those files that the Chief is keen to keep concealed and how do I have grounds to say that? Because Armond himself hinted as such by stating publicly:
"As long as **** **** (Named the Chief in his comment) is running things over there, the Zodiac case will stay unsolved."
Pelissetti's own words. To me he's suggesting in no uncertain terms that he knows very well himself that the required evidence, or even the suspects name, is in the Zodiac case files that the SFPD have, it just requires the release of files without the name of a certain man being redacted and if I had to place a bet on where Z's name is to be found, I'd go all in on it being the man identified by the eight year old in the murder of Paul Stine. If this Eight year old saw Zodiac at the cab, then as the Document states, subsequently 'Identified' *Redacted Name* as possibly the subject responsible, then I'm going to go all in with confidence holding a pair of Aces. If I lose and was wrong, so be it but I know I am going to the flop holding the best staring hand possible.
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Post by WelshChappie on Sept 24, 2014 14:04:17 GMT -8
Many people have wondered why Zodiac asked Paul to take him to Washington & Maple Streets in Presidio Heights but end up one block further at Washington & Cherry streets. Many theories have been put forward from pedestrians being at or near Maple Street to Zodiac himself driving the cab from Maple to Cherry. Well, the second one doesn't make any sense because this means Zodiac drove one block further than intended to then double back on himself and go back down Jackson Street. Anyway, I have often wondered if Zodiac did shoot Paul at Maple Street, or any other location for that matter, as neither the witnesses who saw the Zodiac at the cab, nor anyone else in the close proximity, reported hearing any shot fired. So if, and it is a big if, Zodiac did shoot Paul at Maple Street then why or how did they end up at Cherry one block further? I have come across a possible explanation, a medically recognised event at the point of death called Cadaveric Spasm, or Instant Rigor. It is a rare bodily reaction where the muscles instantly tense up that most commonly effects the upper limbs, but can also effect the lower limbs also. The limbs stiffen into a rigid locked state and as such, anyone sat in a vehicle that is not in Park with hands on a steering wheel and foot on accelerator could very well involuntarily push down on the accelerator and jerk the vehicle forward. On a website for forensic pathology, the common cause of this condition is sudden and instant death by way of trauma, and listed as an example is 'Such as a gun shot to the head.
I am not advocating this as my own theory on the actual cause of the cab ending where it did, nor am I claiming it's more likely than any other. Just offering up another possible explanation that is a recognised scientific event seen in traumatic and violent deaths. Below is an episode of Homicide Hunter entitled 'Death Grip'. This phrase is a layman's term for Cadaveric Spasm. In this episode the victim is shot in the head with a 9mm just behind the left ear. His jeep is stationary at the point of impact by the bullet, and the narrator asks " How could the victim manage to drive his truck in to the side of an apartment building after a fatal gun shot wound to the head?" Lt. Kendra of Homicide division can tell you why this happened starting at 6:10 into the video: Click attachment to enlarge a description written by a current Forensic Pathologist. Attachments:
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Post by MikeR on Sept 25, 2014 18:18:22 GMT -8
Hi-
I think Z was too smart to allow something as random as the cab careening down Washington St. with a dead man at the wheel to happen even if he had never heard of the "death grip." The noise and commotion the cab may have caused as it ran into cars as Z struggled to get to the brake pedal would have run contrary to his larger plan of getting the shirt tail.
There was any number of scenarios and pretenses under which he could have gotten Stine to put the cab in Park, such as saying at Maple that he is not sure they are in the right place and having him drive to Cherry and then "put it in Park" while I check out the address of the home on the corner, etc.
Mike
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Post by WelshChappie on Sept 26, 2014 7:09:17 GMT -8
Hi- I think Z was too smart to allow something as random as the cab careening down Washington St. with a dead man at the wheel to happen even if he had never heard of the "death grip." The noise and commotion the cab may have caused as it ran into cars as Z struggled to get to the brake pedal would have run contrary to his larger plan of getting the shirt tail. There was any number of scenarios and pretenses under which he could have gotten Stine to put the cab in Park, such as saying at Maple that he is not sure they are in the right place and having him drive to Cherry and then "put it in Park" while I check out the address of the home on the corner, etc. Mike Fair points & I agree, there are any number of reasons why he ended up one street further than he seemed to intend to which left him an extra block to negotiate back through. I'm just putting this out there as one of those innumerable possibilities. If the cab did jerk forward and Z had to act fast to get his foot over onto the break then that could possibly explain his odd gait & limp on Jackson street, maybe he was injured in the panic to stop the cab, who knows. " I think Z was too smart to allow something as random as the cab careening down Washington St. with a dead man at the wheel to happen even if he had never heard of the "death grip." I disagree. How can you possibly take precaution against something that you are not aware even exists? Still this idea persists that this killer was smart above the average. I don't know why people still make this assumption about Zodiac. Just to give one quick example of his 'Genius', in the murder of Stine Z ignores the closest & quickest escape route located at Cherry St that gets him off the streets in favour of turning right & proceeding down the lit street walking straight into the headlights of The oncoming police car. This guy was anything but a criminal genius. People assign this title to him in error based on the fact he was never caught. He was never caught, that is true, but it wasn't for the want of trying. He presented himself on a platter for them to arrest on Oct. 11, but good luck, not judgement, was on Zodiacs side.
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Post by MikeR on Sept 29, 2014 11:58:20 GMT -8
Hi-
This episode drives home the difference between the "Z DNA" and that from the BTK case and this case. When you find semen on something, you know that it is 99.9% that the person whose semen it was had definitely come into contact with that item. When you have letters that were sent by who-knows-who, you have no idea if that person ever killed anyone or whether they just wrote the letters.
Of course, there are more problems than this, since testing shows that the Z letters were apparently not even licked but if one wishes to assume they were like most people seem to do for some reason, the above argument applies.
Mike
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Post by WelshChappie on Sept 29, 2014 16:18:33 GMT -8
I agree completely Mike. I've always had a nagging suspicion that the swatch of Stine's shirt was added as a double bluff.
The immediate assumption will be,, as the writer knows all to well, that the person writing the letter "I am the murderer of the taxi driver...' has to be the person who shot and killed Paul Stine because the letter is accompanied by a swatch of Paul's blood stained shirt. This can be a fatal assumption to make because the fact is, the writer could simply be attempting to give an impression of the writer and Zodiac being the same man for his own agenda and purpose.
The simple fact is, the Killer could have simply given this swatch of shirt to his accomplice who writes the letters. Then if Law Enforcement, Forensic Science & the public in general believe that matching a DNA sample or finger print on one of the letters will reveal who the killer is they would get flawed and misleading results if a match were ever found. We'd simply have uncovered the identity of the letter writer and not, as it would be incorrectly assumed, the identity of the Zodiac Killer.
I have always had a suspicion that the swatch of shirt was added to that letter to confuse the police even further. I mean, lets assume they had found a suspect who they believed was atop all the others for several reasons and they ruled him out based on his handwriting? They may have let the Killer go due to a mistaken and flawed belief that the writer of the letters and the active killer were one and the same person.
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Post by WelshChappie on Sept 30, 2014 8:26:19 GMT -8
Just to elaborate slightly on what I said above: The writer in this specific 'I am the murderer of the taxi driver' letter seems to over-do it and make too much of an effort to convince us he the writer, & he the killer of Paul Stine, is the same person. Example?
"To prove this, here is a blood stained piece of his shirt."
He is saying it seems: "This man writing to you is the man responsible for shooting the Cabbie and if you don't believe me here is absolute proof!
"I am the same man who did in the people in the North Bay Area...."
This comment has always bothered me because it is the sort of claim you'd expect to see as a reply to someone claiming that he the writer & Zodiac are not the same man because he writes "I am the same man" as though a claim to the contrary that he, the writer of this letter, and he who took a cab from the Downtown Theatre District to Presidio Heights, may not the same man. Nobody has, or ever did question whether this is authentic and from the Killer after police challenged the writer for more info on the LHR episode and he gleefully obliged the request offering crime scene specific's.
Also, Here in this extremely vague and generalised statement, the author seems oblivious to anything specific at all which is totaly att odds with his previous bragging declaration of: " This is the murderer of the 2 teenagers last Christmas at Lake Herman." This comment this time seems very specific and gives age range, Number of victims killed, the specific road name it was carried out on, and the specific time of year in which he had done his thing.
How does this writer go from knowing the age of the first two victims and recalling they were shot on LHR to a seriously vague, non-specific almost unknowledgable offering of 'The People' that he can only say were somewhere in the vicinity of the Northern San Francisco Bay area, which is like telling a friend who's car you borrowed the day before "I left your vehicle for you safely parked in The Calgary, Alberta area of Canada."
"I also did in
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Post by Ricardo on Oct 26, 2014 20:42:56 GMT -8
Maybe the Zodiac killer has a problem with his memory?
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Post by Ricardo on Oct 26, 2014 20:53:37 GMT -8
The Zodiac killer did not run away from the crime scene which would have called attention.
Instead the Zodiac killer walked away from the crime scene which made it less suspicious when the police drove by on Jackson Street shortly after.
For some reason, it seems that the Zodiac killer knew he was more likely to get caught if he ran away.
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Post by Norse on Oct 27, 2014 7:24:22 GMT -8
Hello all - and thanks to the staff for welcoming me to the forum!
WelshChappie: I enjoyed reading your thoughts and theories over on Morf's forum and I'm very glad to see that you're still in the business of thinking outside the box about the Z case - the latter is probably precisely what is needed!
As I recall you sent in a FOIA request regarding the kid (described as an 8 year old) who seemingly identified the person who emerged from Paul Stine's cab on the night of the murder. Have you heard back from the authorities regarding this?
Very interested to hear if there's been any developments regarding this.
All the best,
Norse
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Post by WelshChappie on Oct 27, 2014 14:28:21 GMT -8
Hello all - and thanks to the staff for welcoming me to the forum! WelshChappie: I enjoyed reading your thoughts and theories over on Morf's forum and I'm very glad to see that you're still in the business of thinking outside the box about the Z case - the latter is probably precisely what is needed! As I recall you sent in a FOIA request regarding the kid (described as an 8 year old) who seemingly identified the person who emerged from Paul Stine's cab on the night of the murder. Have you heard back from the authorities regarding this? Very interested to hear if there's been any developments regarding this. All the best, Norse Hi N, and yep, still thinking outside the proverbial box when and where conventional answers don't seem to make sense.
In regards to your second question and the FOIA request for release of named suspect 'identified' by on scene witness, who's name has been redacted in the publically released version, the answer is: Haven't heard a thing back in relation to that specific suspect name release. But here is what I find fascinating:
1. I sent a similar request around two years ago, request for release of named suspect in the same page/file, and they sent me back this:
The above is evidence that they are willing to release Robert West's name in this same document, but for some reason, they are ignoring the request for the release of the named suspect ID'd as the man he'd witnessed in & at The Yellow Cab.
I sent this latest FOIA for the name release 4 weeks after submitted my FOIA asking for Kane's arrest record. As you know, I received Kane's files in May of this year having requested the files the year previous in November (6 months waiting time). So considering I asked for everything they have on Kane & have received it all in May, the fact the outstanding request only asks for one thing, the name release, it doesn't look like they are going to give me it.
No problem, it took multiple FOIA request's before I got Kane's files released, so now I will simply start my next FOIA with: Dear Mr FBI. This is the Welsh Chap Requesting!
I am back with you! I am the submitter of the last request similar to this one. To prove this, here is the title of the request with date. The one thing I ask you is this: Please release this name. I get awfully lonely when I am ignored. If you do not release this name then I shall do something nasty, like send another request, which you know I am capable of.
But to be serious N, and I was thinking about this while on the bus earlier, there is this uneasy suspicion that they (by they, I mean the superior ranked officers of the SFPD, namely the Chief of SFPD, already know who he (Zodiac) is. See! Now I am so far outside the box I can't even see the box itself! But I believe I have grounds on which to make this claim, that being the chiefs warning to Two Homicide Detectives who approached him asking can they take the Zodiac case files home to investigate on their own personal time (They had first tried to access the files on duty, but were told by the Chief that they were understaffed & overworked with the number of recent homicides as it is, so request was refused.) When they asked could they take the files home, they Chief angrily told them that if they bring that case up again, or try to gain access to the files on it, he will personally transfer them from Homicide Detail to Uniformed Desk Duties. Seem Strange? Does to me. It make's what Armond Pelissetti said even more questionable as to what he meant by his fairly recent statement of: "As long as this Chief is running the show over there (over at SFPD), The Zodiac case will not be solved."
Now to the cynically minded, suspiciously natured person such as myself, that statement could be interpreted as A.P implying that the Chief knows the identity of the Zodiac, and is conspiring with a handful of other 'higher up's' to keep the killers identity from being made known to the public so until he retires, the case won't go anywhere.
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Post by Norse on Oct 27, 2014 16:27:22 GMT -8
Hehe - if you word your next request precisely like that (and may I suggest that you include some bomb schematics too), you're sure to get an answer shortly!
I guess we'll just have to wait and see - and hope.
I remember reading what you refer to above myself - and it does look both fishy and depressing, doesn't it? We can only hope that it's "just" the sort of bureaucratic and/or business minded attitude one sadly has to expect from "leaders" in all walks of life these days - and not something more sinister.
But you have to wonder - that's for sure.
Anyway, thanks for your reply - and don't give up trying to get to the bottom of this thing!
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Post by MikeR on Oct 27, 2014 17:50:38 GMT -8
Hi-
"It make's what Armond Pelissetti said even more questionable as to what he meant by his fairly recent statement of: "As long as this Chief is running the show over there (over at SFPD), The Zodiac case will not be solved."
I thought Maloney said that on Voigt's site several years ago. I doubt Pelissetti did.
Mike
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Post by Norse on Oct 28, 2014 6:47:55 GMT -8
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