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Post by Norse on Nov 13, 2014 17:18:56 GMT -8
I knew I had it somewhere - and I finally found it:
"The Ciphers enclosed with items 2 - 4 were submitted by the Vallejo Police Department to the Navy Department, but were not examined by cryptographer."
This is from the FBI files. So, it seems pretty conclusive that the 408 wasn't actually examined by cryptographers with the intention of SOLVING it. They - the cryptographers, more precisely FBI cryptographers - only examined the Hardens' solution in order to verify it (which they did).
For what it's worth.
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Zamantha
Moderator
Zodiac Killer Mystery Moderator
Posts: 44
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Post by Zamantha on Nov 25, 2014 23:17:38 GMT -8
I knew I had it somewhere - and I finally found it: "The Ciphers enclosed with items 2 - 4 were submitted by the Vallejo Police Department to the Navy Department, but were not examined by cryptographer." This is from the FBI files. So, it seems pretty conclusive that the 408 wasn't actually examined by cryptographers with the intention of SOLVING it. They - the cryptographers, more precisely FBI cryptographers - only examined the Hardens' solution in order to verify it (which they did). For what it's worth. Thanks Norse, it's worth knowing the truth, appreciate it!
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Post by Ricardo on Jan 4, 2015 23:14:46 GMT -8
I knew I had it somewhere - and I finally found it: "The Ciphers enclosed with items 2 - 4 were submitted by the Vallejo Police Department to the Navy Department, but were not examined by cryptographer." This is from the FBI files. So, it seems pretty conclusive that the 408 wasn't actually examined by cryptographers with the intention of SOLVING it. They - the cryptographers, more precisely FBI cryptographers - only examined the Hardens' solution in order to verify it (which they did). For what it's worth. Thanks for the clarification! Then I would like to know the reason that the Vallejo Police Department did not explicitly request the cryptographers in the Navy Department to attempt to solve the 408-symbol cipher (before the Hardens solved it).
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Post by Zydeco on Jun 2, 2015 0:19:16 GMT -8
I think they solved it in days. The internet is full of noise, some of it deliberate. But others have to have solved it. They must go now, to an independent expert (who isn't a stooge) then to a national newspaper. Post the solution online first.
What have the 'powers that be' got to hide? Ha ha! The answer is: everything. The first rule of homo superior club. Listen, do you want to know a secret? Do you promise not to tell...
Personally, I'd start with the words 'book depository', or 'grassy knoll', or... (redacted)... What price freedom?
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Post by WelshChappie on Jun 27, 2015 0:57:15 GMT -8
I think they solved it in days. The internet is full of noise, some of it deliberate. But others have to have solved it. They must go now, to an independent expert (who isn't a stooge) then to a national newspaper. Post the solution online first. What have the 'powers that be' got to hide? Ha ha! The answer is: everything. The first rule of homo superior club. Listen, do you want to know a secret? Do you promise not to tell... Personally, I'd start with the words 'book depository', or 'grassy knoll', or... (redacted)... What price freedom? " They must go now, to an independent expert (who isn't a stooge) then to a national newspaper." Yes! Then you can run all the way down to The SFPD HQ and burst into the lobby out of breath.... "TIP! ....... *Intake Breath*.... discovered who........... *Gasp for air*..... Broke Code.........*inhtake breath*...... Then you can flop onto the front desk where an Officer Awaits and tell him: "I have....I have a tip for you Blue Pig! This Gentleman here to my left is A Cryptograpgy Expert and He & I have de-ciphered the Zodiac Killers code! Yes ...That's right! The case and killer you Blue Meanies can't get enough of! "Now Sgt. Meanie, where are your SWAT Officers because I propose we......" "Sir, if you don't leave this lobby within 10 seconds, I will arrest and charge you with attempting to use the word 'Zodiac Killer' whilst standing inside SFPD Police HQ, a Felony Offence under the California Officer Protection from Zodiac Tips' Act 2008. Subsection 4, part B of this Legislation declares: "Should a SFPD employee be asked to take a full confession from 'The Zodiac Killer', the Officer may arrest this person at his own pleasure for an offence of wasting police time & making false Claims and lying to Police Officers, a further offence under the "Fuck off Zodiac" Act of 2010.
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Post by ScotsChappie on Jul 19, 2015 9:49:23 GMT -8
Sorry...I've turned up late on this section...plus I lost my ''I.D. card ''[password].
From an entry in ''The codes section '',I have ''solved'' the ''340'' - but it is a complete mess - a few bits of coherent parts,with swathes of jumbled alphabetics.It will take much sorting,with those blessed with crossword skills,better placed than me.
In comparison,the ''408'' is a walk in the park.This should not detract from the Hardens' achievement.They were the first to try,and largely succeed.But turning back the clock,you sense that Zodiac viewed the ''408''as an exercise in his cipher skills,as much as a desire to send a chilling message.Let's be honest,its pretty camp gibberish [?].
I think Ricardo is correct - it is almost unthinkable that the authorities hadn't already solved it.Whatever,Zodiac learned his lesson - but then overstretched himself with the ''408',in terms of competence [?].
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Post by ScotsChappie on Jul 19, 2015 10:41:51 GMT -8
Sorry...I've turned up late on this section...plus I lost my ''I.D. card ''[password].
From an entry in ''The codes section '',I have ''solved'' the ''340'' - but it is a complete mess - a few bits of coherent parts,with swathes of jumbled alphabetics.It will take much sorting,with those blessed with crossword skills,better placed than me.
In comparison,the ''408'' is a walk in the park.This should not detract from the Hardens' achievement.They were the first to try,and largely succeed.But turning back the clock,you sense that Zodiac viewed the ''408''as an exercise in his cipher skills,as much as a desire to send a chilling message.Let's be honest,its pretty camp gibberish [?].
I think Ricardo is correct - it is almost unthinkable that the authorities hadn't already solved it.Whatever,Zodiac learned his lesson - but then overstretched himself with the ''340'',in terms of competence.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 22, 2015 16:48:53 GMT -8
Just as a general observation,''entities'' like the ''408'',constituted that which Zodiac is/was wanted for extortion.In other words,and more specifically,Newspapers felt obligated,under threat,to publish quickly - thereby ''allowing'' the likes of Don Harden to have crack,before the FBI could get round to it.
Also,one senses that initially,the local polices forces of the San Francisco vicinity were more at the forefront of investigations - with the FBI in a supporting role.
Roll forward to to-day - its completely the other way around [?].
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 22, 2015 16:54:52 GMT -8
Incidentally,and perhaps a little name dropping here,I am in correspondence with Craig Bauer.
He is about to publish a new book on unsolved ciphers - but has not told me the precise contents - perhaps the ''340'' will receive a new perspective [?].
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Post by WelshChappie on Aug 24, 2015 12:28:21 GMT -8
Incidentally,and perhaps a little name dropping here,I am in correspondence with Craig Bauer. He is about to publish a new book on unsolved ciphers - but has not told me the precise contents - perhaps the ''340'' will receive a new perspective [?]. That would be great. If the 340 isn't a topic He discusses in the upcomming release, maybe you could ask him would He be willing, or is He available to, have a look at the code just for one week if He's busy? How cheeky! I hear people cry lol.... my tone or attitude may seem that way but I really don't mean it in a egocentric or demanding way. In one sense, I would be extatic if He scrutanized the 340 with undeterred attention and His finding were that "In my Professional Opinion, no legible message is contained within the 340" type of reply cause then I can stop staring at the 340 and coming up with theory No. 164.5. PS. It's not known to the general public but according to an FBI Memo, at least part of the 340 was and has been decoded and reveals two messages according to the memo, I don't know if Mr Bauer knows this or not or if it could in any way help? FBI Memo claims one line reads..... " IF YOU WISH TO KNOW MY IDENTITY YOU WILL HAVE TO PUT SOME EFFORT IN. HERE IS A CLUE AS (ASK) MS *REDACTED NAME* IF SHE REMEMBERS WHO DRAWS THE SYMBOL, THEN YOU WILL HAVE ME. GOOD LUCK."
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 24, 2015 18:55:42 GMT -8
Absolutely,WelshChappie....I shall try to get more info out of Mr.Bauer,regarding the ''340''.However,I am aware that the ''340'' probably just about sneaks in on his ''Top 10'' unsolved ciphers - plus it more than likely contains many errors and general incompetence by Zodiac - one can't always ''fix'' what was intended,but didn't actually materialize [?].
My requirements from ''Craig'' regard another cipher,not unfamiliar with many Zodiac enthusiasts - hopefully,this will become more generally known soon.
I have seen the FBI Memo - an interesting claim - but ''they'' are human like the rest of us - so,who knows at this stage [?].
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Post by WelshChappie on Sept 7, 2015 16:28:02 GMT -8
Absolutely,WelshChappie....I shall try to get more info out of Mr.Bauer,regarding the ''340''.However,I am aware that the ''340'' probably just about sneaks in on his ''Top 10'' unsolved ciphers - plus it more than likely contains many errors and general incompetence by Zodiac - one can't always ''fix'' what was intended,but didn't actually materialize [?]. My requirements from ''Craig'' regard another cipher,not unfamiliar with many Zodiac enthusiasts - hopefully,this will become more generally known soon. I have seen the FBI Memo - an interesting claim - but ''they'' are human like the rest of us - so,who knows at this stage [?]. Well yes they are only human like the rest of us & thus open to making mistakes and errors, but that would be easy to accept and use to dismiss the FBI memo claimed decryption if the message therein was not what it appears to be, that being, the specific name of a person as victim, and a second named Miss *Redacted Name* who the text is asking the reader to seek and question her asking does she know who it is that draws the symbol and if she remembers, she'll name him and His identity will be secret no more. See if it can be estabished that the people the text is said to be referring to actually do exist and are real people, then that alone takes the possible accuracy in decoding of message from one of 'well maybe it is, but no evidence to show this is the case' to one of 'Almost a certainty to be correct as the names deciphered can be shown and proven to be real, tracable people.' The latter of which is stongly suggestive of the message being an accurate decipherment & correct Key found, then used, to unlock it.
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Post by Ricardo on Sept 7, 2015 21:29:25 GMT -8
Incidentally,and perhaps a little name dropping here,I am in correspondence with Craig Bauer. He is about to publish a new book on unsolved ciphers - but has not told me the precise contents - perhaps the ''340'' will receive a new perspective [?]. That would be great. If the 340 isn't a topic He discusses in the upcomming release, maybe you could ask him would He be willing, or is He available to, have a look at the code just for one week if He's busy? How cheeky! I hear people cry lol.... my tone or attitude may seem that way but I really don't mean it in a egocentric or demanding way. In one sense, I would be extatic if He scrutanized the 340 with undeterred attention and His finding were that "In my Professional Opinion, no legible message is contained within the 340" type of reply cause then I can stop staring at the 340 and coming up with theory No. 164.5. PS. It's not known to the general public but according to an FBI Memo, at least part of the 340 was and has been decoded and reveals two messages according to the memo, I don't know if Mr Bauer knows this or not or if it could in any way help? FBI Memo claims one line reads..... " IF YOU WISH TO KNOW MY IDENTITY YOU WILL HAVE TO PUT SOME EFFORT IN. HERE IS A CLUE AS (ASK) MS *REDACTED NAME* IF SHE REMEMBERS WHO DRAWS THE SYMBOL, THEN YOU WILL HAVE ME. GOOD LUCK." Absolutely,WelshChappie....I shall try to get more info out of Mr.Bauer,regarding the ''340''.However,I am aware that the ''340'' probably just about sneaks in on his ''Top 10'' unsolved ciphers - plus it more than likely contains many errors and general incompetence by Zodiac - one can't always ''fix'' what was intended,but didn't actually materialize [?]. My requirements from ''Craig'' regard another cipher,not unfamiliar with many Zodiac enthusiasts - hopefully,this will become more generally known soon. I have seen the FBI Memo - an interesting claim - but ''they'' are human like the rest of us - so,who knows at this stage [?]. Well yes they are only human like the rest of us & thus open to making mistakes and errors, but that would be easy to accept and use to dismiss the FBI memo claimed decryption if the message therein was not what it appears to be, that being, the specific name of a person as victim, and a second named Miss *Redacted Name* who the text is asking the reader to seek and question her asking does she know who it is that draws the symbol and if she remembers, she'll name him and His identity will be secret no more. See if it can be estabished that the people the text is said to be referring to actually do exist and are real people, then that alone takes the possible accuracy in decoding of message from one of 'well maybe it is, but no evidence to show this is the case' to one of 'Almost a certainty to be correct as the names deciphered can be shown and proven to be real, tracable people.' The latter of which is stongly suggestive of the message being an accurate decipherment & correct Key found, then used, to unlock it. “If you wish to know my identity, you will have to put some effort in. Here is a clue. As (Ask) Ms. [redacted] if she remembers who draws the symbol, then you will have me. Good luck.”The wording “my identity” was used in the letter from the Zodiac killer to the San Francisco mailed July 31, 1969. “In this cipher is my idenity.”
The wording “will have me” was used in the letter from the Zodiac killer to the San Francisco Examiner mailed August 4, 1969. “By the way, are the police haveing a good time with the code? If not, tell them to cheer up; when they crack it they will have me.”I also would like to find out the redacted name of the woman who, according to this claim, saw the Zodiac killer draw the symbol prior to 1969.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 8, 2015 14:05:48 GMT -8
I certainly acknowledge the last two posts from WelshChappie and Ricardo.
It catches me in a slightly uncomfortable position,since I ''may well'' know more information than I am willing to divulge - merely at present,for it is never my intention to dangle,particularly Zodiac enthusiasts,on a piece of string.
Regarding the FBI MEMO - I don't know,but I am strongly skeptical of it's authenticity of content.In many ways,Ricardo has provided strong reasons for suggesting this,with it's ''plagiaristic'' aspects related to some of Zodiac's written words.
I am more preoccupied with what angle of subterfuge or ''fishing'' that Federal Law Enforcement are up to....since,they are known to come up with ideas to procure certain information,or eliminate questionable knowledge,on occasion.If we assume that most of official Zodiac investigations,these days,are taking place ''from behind a desk''-one might ask ''Where is their chief source ?''.
The answer often lies not a million miles away....here,on the Zodiac websites.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 13, 2015 17:42:51 GMT -8
I have looked at that FBI MEMO again.
What do we have here ? - perhaps up to 140 characters [?].For one line ?!
What on earth do ''they'' mean ? If an attempt is being made into enticing ''us'' into having a go - well,''they'' could have done a far better job [?].
I mean,where would one start [?].
Zodiac never intended to give us his real name,and that is something that we should always take as a given.
This MEMO is not worth the time contemplating....it's codswallop....it's [censored] !!
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