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Post by Daryll on Jan 19, 2016 13:02:41 GMT -8
I thought it would be best to put Fouke and Zelms under the microscope pertaining to the day Stine was killed. Probably the biggest blunder happened when the report came through that the killer of Stine was a NMA (negro male adult). This was an error - a big one. It should have read WMA (white male adult). When Fouke and Zelms were at Cherry and Washington in their patrol unit and they raced toward the scene and saw a "stocky" man lumbering toward the Presidio they should have stopped the man especially after he had said he saw a man waving a gun running east on Washington. Had they stopped they would have seen the blood where Stine's head had rested in the Zodiac's lap. They both might have been killed at that spot because of the 9mm pistol he had. Fouke, I think, said to Dave Toschi later that they both might have been killed on the spot unless they had the draw on the killer. As luck would have it they didn't stop him and he wandered into the Presidio and Donald and Eric finally realized that they had probably just talked to the Zodiac and had lost him. They had come within a hair of catching the famous killer himself. On October 16th they filed an initial report with their captain which eventually went to Armstrong and Toschi as an interdepartmental memo. Graysmith said they were "filled with despair and were shattered". A second drawing was drawn up altering the looks of the Zodiac. Before October 16th S.F.P.D. denied that Zodiac had been seen by any policemen. Daryll Lathers
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Sandy
Moderator
Zodiac Killer Mystery Moderator
Posts: 428
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Post by Sandy on Feb 5, 2016 23:44:07 GMT -8
Daryll, Somehow I missed the part that Zodiac told Fouke and Zelms the poi was headed east ?
I thought that Zodiac was walking east on the north side of Jackson ( Not Washington )and had pointed in a westerly direction as the direction he saw the poi going ? That way it gave him more time to keep walking towards Maple.
I understood that Fouke and Zelms were coming down Jackson towards Cherry when they saw who they believe was Zodiac. As they got to Cherry was when they spoke to Pelissetti who was turning onto Jackson and was told to be on the look out for a WMA.
Can you tell me where you read Z pointed east ? If so that changes my thoughts as to where Zodiac might have been headed.
As for the correction of the SFPD composite, making Z older with more of a fuller face , that was done with the help of Fouke and Zelms.
I was told that by the artist himself, so I am stating that as a fact. Which means they both got a good look at Zodiac.
Eric Zelms widow has said that Eric told her they did talk to the man they now believe was the Zodiac, but only briefly.
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Post by WelshChappie on Feb 6, 2016 19:01:43 GMT -8
Zodiac said the encounter happened As He was walking down the Hill, and He observed them peel rubber and go around a corner. Now this is interesting because Don originally stated in the on screen version for Crimes of the Century that He passed Maple and proceeded directly to Arguello. In 2007 He changes this to "Turned Southbound on Cherry St"
Well, let's take His word that He encounters WMA somewhere near Maple Intersection on Jackson St. Zodiac simply would not have tried directing Don up to Cherry claiming a Man waving a gun had just ran that way because Zodiac knows that wouldn't make any sense for a suspect to leave the scene and then draw his weaopon and run directly back toward the very crime scene He has minutes previous walked away from. So it stands to reason that Zodiac directets Don to Arguello Blvd just as Don originally states He drove to.
Here is the view up the hill from Maple area on Jackson.....you cannot be here and watch as cops speed uphill and turn at Arguello around and onto West Pacific Avenue and why? Because He cannot see Arguello from Maple!
Click image to enlarge. . .
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Post by Ricardo on Feb 7, 2016 1:55:28 GMT -8
I thought it would be best to put Fouke and Zelms under the microscope pertaining to the day Stine was killed. Probably the biggest blunder happened when the report came through that the killer of Stine was a NMA (negro male adult). This was an error - a big one. It should have read WMA (white male adult). When Fouke and Zelms were at Cherry and Washington in their patrol unit and they raced toward the scene and saw a "stocky" man lumbering toward the Presidio they should have stopped the man especially after he had said he saw a man waving a gun running east on Washington. Had they stopped they would have seen the blood where Stine's head had rested in the Zodiac's lap. They both might have been killed at that spot because of the 9mm pistol he had. Fouke, I think, said to Dave Toschi later that they both might have been killed on the spot unless they had the draw on the killer. As luck would have it they didn't stop him and he wandered into the Presidio and Donald and Eric finally realized that they had probably just talked to the Zodiac and had lost him. They had come within a hair of catching the famous killer himself. On October 16th they filed an initial report with their captain which eventually went to Armstrong and Toschi as an interdepartmental memo. Graysmith said they were "filled with despair and were shattered". A second drawing was drawn up altering the looks of the Zodiac. Before October 16th S.F.P.D. denied that Zodiac had been seen by any policemen. Daryll Lathers Daryll, Thank you for your comments about what happened at the Presidio Heights on October 11, 1969. I still have questions about what happened. Here is the description of what happened in Robert Graysmith’s 1986 book, Zodiac: “A police patrol unit was near Cherry and Washington and raced toward the scene. The patrol reached Jackson and Cherry by 10:00 and saw a stocky man “lumbering” along in the fog toward the Presidio. The radio unit, Patrolmen Donald Foukes and Eric Zelms, looking for a black man, shouted to the stranger and asked if he had seen anything unusual in the last minute or so. The stocky man called out he’d seen a man waving a gun running east on Washington, and the patrol car sped off in that direction.” Here is the description of what happened in the San Francisco Police Department intra-departmental memorandum dated November 12, 1969, signed by Donald A. Fouke: “Sir: I respectfully wish to report the following, that while responding to the area of Cherry and Washington Streets a suspect fitting the description of the Zodiac killer was observed by officer Fouke walking in an easterly direction on Jackson street and then turn north on Maple street. This subject was not stopped as the description received from communications was that of a negro male. When the right description was broadcast reporting officer informed communications that a possible suspect had been seen going north on Maple Street into the Presidio, The area of Julius Kahn playground and a search was started which had negitive results. The suspect that was observed by officer Fouke was a WMA 35-45 Yrs about 5’10”, 180-200 lbs Medium heavy build - Barrel chested - Medium complexion - Light colored hair possibly graying in rear (May have been lighting that caused this effect.) Crew cut - Wearing glasses - Dressed in dark blue waist length zipper type jacket (Navy or royal blue) Elastic cuffs and waist band zipped part way up. Brown wool pants pleeted type baggy in rear (Rust brown) May have been wearing low cut shoes. Subject at no time appeared to be in a hurry walked with a shuffling lope, Slightly bent foreward head down. The subjects general appearance to classifiy him as a group would be that he might be of Welsh ancestory. My partner that night was officer E. Zelms #1348 of Richmond station. I do not know if he observed this subject or not. Respectfully submitted.” Here is the description of what happened in the Zodiac killer’s letter mailed November 9, 1969: “ps. 2 cops pulled a goof abot 3 min after I left the cab. I was walking down the hill to the park when this cop car pulled up & one of them called me over & asked if I saw anyone acting supicisous or strange in the last 5 to 10 min & I said yes there was this man who was runnig by waveing a gun & the cops peeled rubber & went around the corner as I directed them & I dissappeared into the park a block & a half away never to be seen again.” There are discrepancies between all of these descriptions!
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