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Post by Ricardo on Oct 2, 2016 3:15:11 GMT -8
The Celebrity Cypher may or may not have been sent by the Zodiac killer. Rubislaw32 has proposed a new solution to the Celebrity Cypher. Here is a link to the Project MK-ZODIAC report which includes Rubislaw32’s solution to the Celebrity Cypher: Deciphering the Celebrity Cyphermk-zodiac.com/DecipheringtheCelebrityCypher.htmlThanks to Rubislaw32 for making this solution available to be examined! We can discuss Rubislaw32’s solution here on the Zodiac Killer Mystery message board. Also, I would like to know if there is any other solution to the Celebrity Cypher.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 3, 2016 20:26:49 GMT -8
And it's a ''thank you'' to Ricardo,for including the solution in a Project MK-ZODIAC report,which is extremely well presented and compiled.
Please do feel free to discuss any aspect of the solution that I have offered,in addition to others' efforts to solve a cipher,which was originally brought to our attention,by the late author and Zodiac investigator,Lyndon Lafferty.
Apart from self-references,I am open to most aspects of inquiry or opinion [!].
In recent years,the 1990 Celebrity Cipher has taken on an increasing attraction,in that it tantalizingly might give us an insight into ''a Zodiac'',a few years on,and more mature,than his heinous exploits 1968-1974.
Naturally,having a belief in the ''new solution'' offered,Zodiac appears to have ''added'' to his self-education and worldliness.But the ''trademark'' wit and capacity for cutting insult,still seems to have been retained.
Can the ''Zodiac'' that we believe that we know,ever be apprehended and made answerable for his crimes ?
It is always possible that understanding correspondences,further on than 1974,and yet to be authenticated by the authorities,might go some way to yield additional information,that finally ensnares ''The Cipher Slayer''.
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Post by Ricardo on Oct 4, 2016 8:55:03 GMT -8
It is good that we can examine your solution to the Celebrity Cypher.
It is important to note that your solution is not based upon anagrams.
We do not know whether or not the Zodiac killer used any anagrams.
Anagrams are subject to debate because there are multiple possibilities about how the letters may be arranged.
A solution without anagrams is easier to verify.
You have come up with a clever solution to the Celebrity Cypher without using anagrams.
The challenge is for anyone to provide any other solution.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 4, 2016 12:59:52 GMT -8
There is a saying : ''Never argue with a stand up comedian,nor mess with a mathematician - they will always tie you up in knots.''.
I would imagine that the first part is true,but the second part is open to debate - it probably depends on how motivated the mathematician feels,at the time.
If you asked a mathematician : ''Can you work out the chances of Rubislaw 32's solution to the Celebrity Cipher ''not'' being correct ?''
The answer a mathematician would probably give is : ''Do I have to ?''
My point is that,in theory,it would be possible to ascertain a probability answer,to within reasonable accuracy - depending on such factors as what is considered a fluid and meaningful message.Given naturally,that there is exclusivity in substitution at play.
A striking difference in this ''new solution'' is that it increases the accountable quantity of symbols to 65.And the difference between 65 and ''the originally considered '' 63,represents a huge leap in probability.
As a trained mathematician,given that the solution makes ''almost'' perfect sense,in terms of communication and abridged logic,the chances of it ''not'' being correct could be something in the realms of someone winning the state lottery,three Saturdays in a row.
Any detractors,feel free to step forward [?].
Naturally,I would contend that the difficulty faced,in the past,was that no one accounted for the fact that ''Zodiac'' might elect to switch from English to French,half way through the cipher.But he did give ''fair warning'' with a comma punctuation mark !
At this stage,I should just like to add a final detail,that might make more appeal to those,less inclined to matters mathematical.
A detail,in the form of a question :
Why,do you think that ''Zodiac'' elected to select a particularly elongated postage stamp ?
Well,I don't think it was,because it looked pretty !
[ Answer : Because the elongated postage stamp provided a function - to ''obscure'' part of the message - and,in this case,his name....''Mister Zodiac''.]
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Post by Davb on Oct 4, 2016 14:12:36 GMT -8
You are a mathematician? Rubislaw32 ... interesting
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 4, 2016 14:53:54 GMT -8
Thanks for that,Davb......but if the truth be known,they are pretty overrated.
As time and technology marches on,there is less of a need for them - and naturally,most schoolchildren despise them.[...''Oh,it's double math coming up - darn !,we actually have to work....].
When Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel split,for the first time,Art Garfunkel left the music industry,and became a math teacher.He recalls that he enjoyed the change,and knuckled down to life,working in a school.
Class teaching was fairly regimented : half an our of methodology teaching,then set the pupils some exercises,after asking ''Are there any questions ? ''.
A usual question would be : ''What was it like,hanging out with The Beatles ? ''.
I managed to avoid the teaching angle,thankfully.
As I have made mention,in the Sleuth Inspirations section,most mathematicians are failed artists.
It is their ''handicap'',that they see the world,all too clearly.
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Post by Davb on Oct 4, 2016 15:09:02 GMT -8
Ok Some math wisses state that the 408 has been proven to be correct with only a very ,very slim chance of another solution being correct ,through algorythm's , do you agree ? Do you have any way to check that out , like computer algorythm program access ?
I,m thinking I buy that persons solution that has a code key that solves all of the zodiacs ciphers and have them run thru the machine
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 4, 2016 15:42:43 GMT -8
I'm on your wavelength,Davb.
The 408 is correct,in that it represents how Zodiac set out his solution.As is apparent,Zodiac made one or two minor errors,which suggests that he was a keen amateur,at best.
Really,don't be persuaded to spend a single cent on someone else's work.At least,give it a ''go'' yourself,first [?].
I have looked at the idea,that Zodiac may have used the same code for different ciphers.I have yet to find,that this is the case - apart from a minor cipher on one of the Fairfield letters - they came only nine days apart,and are officially,unauthenticated,to date.
Lyndon Lafferty used the code from the 408,for The Celebrity Cipher - then treated the resulting alphabetic letters as an anagram.His solution turned out to be a bit ''rough and ready'',with no real fluidity.There is only one person,that I am aware of,that likes Lafferty's solution.But hey,we are talking about a great man,here,who was prepared to get his fingernails dirty,in order to expose Zodiac.
Yes,my advice Davb,is to give the ciphers a try,yourself,first.That way,you begin to understand what they are all about [?].
Don Harden was the first person to solve the 408 - and was ''just'' a keen and curious amateur.
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Post by Davb on Oct 4, 2016 16:02:58 GMT -8
So you do not have access to a computer algorythm program that might confirm if it is like the 408 ? I'm on your wavelength,Davb. The 408 is correct,in that it represents how Zodiac set out his solution.As is apparent,Zodiac made one or two minor errors,which suggests that he was a keen amateur,at best. Really,don't be persuaded to spend a single cent on someone else's work.At least,give it a ''go'' yourself,first [?]. I have looked at the idea,that Zodiac may have used the same code for different ciphers.I have yet to find,that this is the case - apart from a minor cipher on one of the Fairfield letters - they came only nine days apart,and are officially,unauthenticated,to date. Lyndon Lafferty used the code from the 408,for The Celebrity Cipher - then treated the resulting alphabetic letters as an anagram.His solution turned out to be a bit ''rough and ready'',with no real fluidity.There is only one person,that I am aware of,that likes Lafferty's solution.But hey,we are talking about a great man,here,who was prepared to get his fingernails dirty,in order to expose Zodiac. Yes,my advice Davb,is to give the ciphers a try,yourself,first.That way,you begin to understand what they are all about [?] Don Harden was the first person to solve the 408 - and was ''just'' a keen and curious amateur so you do not have access to a computer algorythm program that might confirm if it was correct ?
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 4, 2016 20:01:51 GMT -8
Yes Davb,that is correct....that I don't.
I don't believe in them.There is a fraternity of computer buffs,who call themselves ''applied mathematicians'',who adopt a sort of prototype algorithm,which they continually tinker with,after running tests,and ''perceiving'' weaknesses emerging.
They believe that if they run enough tests,and make enough adjustments,that eventually,they will solve a specific cipher [..the 340 appears to be their ''holy grail''....].Some of these ''computer geeks'' are actually prepared to calculate,how long this process will take - I have heard mention of the year 2030 [!!!].
It's a form of madness - but they appear to get off on it.Anything to avoid actually ''getting down and dirty'',and tackling the ciphers ''face to face''.These ''applied mathematicians'' aren't really using their brains,anymore...they are allowing their brains to become an extension of their computer programs.
Good luck to them,and I hope they find happiness.
The best advice,Davb,is to actually ''engage'' with a cipher,and Zodiac.Look for reasons why,at the time,he might have created it,and in what time period of his escapades did his particular cipher emerge.What,for example,was ''en vogue'' and politically pertinent [?].With whom,for example,might Zodiac have had a personal grudge,at the time [?].Many factors,or a specific factor may have inspired Zodiac to create a cipher,which might influence the content of the solution,we seek.
There is a body of opinion,that some of the time gaps between crimes,and between correspondence from Zodiac,can be accounted for by journeys and stays abroad.Europe and The Far East,in particular.An aspect that clearly influenced me,when contemplating the Celebrity Cipher.When I felt content with having solved the first half,I struggled with the second half,until I considered employing a foreign language.I first tried Cantonese,then Standard Malay,until homing in on French.The remainder of the solution,then ''tumbled out'',in a very short time.
However technical,one purports a method employed....it will almost always come down to ''old fashioned'' ''trial and error'' [!].
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 4, 2016 21:22:20 GMT -8
Indeed,Davb....I note the main thrust of your question.
The simple answer is,that there isn't an algorithm,and never will be one that exists to confirm a/the solution to a cipher,such as the ones that Zodiac created.
Provided he employed,''exclusivity'' in his method of substitution,anything.in theory,is possible.
Zodiac made up his own rules,on that score.But ''credulity'' in an offered solution,goes a long way,to persuade.I have highlighted some of these,in Ricardo's report.
It might be a good idea,for an interested reader,to just ''sit and stare'' at the graphic representation of the solution,in that report.I have noticed that other things come to mind,also.
For example :
There is a line of solution,that reads : SANS SON
This could be construed as SAN'S SON - Zodiac regarded himself as San Francisco's son [?].
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Post by Indie on Oct 15, 2016 7:06:46 GMT -8
I like the new solution.I have seen the zoologist one before.Useful as a chocolate teapot.Bob Dylan would not be happy. Au revoir
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 15, 2016 9:16:58 GMT -8
Kind of you to say,Indie.
One can,at least,eat a chocolate teapot [?].The ''zoologist one'' is very well presented - but then,so is a polished t*rd [?].
I believe the point being,that there is never a time to sit on one's ''laurels'',when Zodiac is still out there.
I note the ''Planet Waves'' inference.Perhaps you are a fan of Mr.Zimmerman ?
''His Royal Bobness'' must be very happy,at the news that the Nobel judges have officially declared that they wish him to enter the pantheon of literary giants.
Those of us of a certain generation,and many others besides,are genuinely proud for him.
The lad from ''....a country,they call the Midwest.'' has ''done good'',for himself [?].
From ''My Back Pages'' :
''For I was so much older then,I'm younger than that now.''
Bob Dylan speaks for everyone,really.
Merci bien,Indie.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 23, 2016 0:23:13 GMT -8
The mystery of Bob Dylan :
Just as an aside,since hearing the news that the Nobel judges had decided to award the Nobel prize for Literature to iconic songwriter Bob Dylan,no reply has been received from Mr.Dylan.
Indeed,Mr.Dylan has removed any mention of the prestigious award,from his official website.In addition,with the awards ceremony taking place,on December 10th,the awards organizers,as well as the judges,are becoming increasingly concerned that Mr.Dylan is ''not well pleased''.
Naturally,Dylan's fans are perplexed also,at the 75 year old's silence.
''What is happening,Mr. Jones ?''.
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Post by Ricardo on Oct 23, 2016 5:10:24 GMT -8
There is a saying : ''Never argue with a stand up comedian,nor mess with a mathematician - they will always tie you up in knots.''. I would imagine that the first part is true,but the second part is open to debate - it probably depends on how motivated the mathematician feels,at the time. If you asked a mathematician : ''Can you work out the chances of Rubislaw 32's solution to the Celebrity Cipher ''not'' being correct ?'' The answer a mathematician would probably give is : ''Do I have to ?'' My point is that,in theory,it would be possible to ascertain a probability answer,to within reasonable accuracy - depending on such factors as what is considered a fluid and meaningful message.Given naturally,that there is exclusivity in substitution at play. A striking difference in this ''new solution'' is that it increases the accountable quantity of symbols to 65.And the difference between 65 and ''the originally considered '' 63,represents a huge leap in probability. As a trained mathematician,given that the solution makes ''almost'' perfect sense,in terms of communication and abridged logic,the chances of it ''not'' being correct could be something in the realms of someone winning the state lottery,three Saturdays in a row. Any detractors,feel free to step forward [?]. Naturally,I would contend that the difficulty faced,in the past,was that no one accounted for the fact that ''Zodiac'' might elect to switch from English to French,half way through the cipher.But he did give ''fair warning'' with a comma punctuation mark ! At this stage,I should just like to add a final detail,that might make more appeal to those,less inclined to matters mathematical. A detail,in the form of a question : Why,do you think that ''Zodiac'' elected to select a particularly elongated postage stamp ? Well,I don't think it was,because it looked pretty ! [ Answer : Because the elongated postage stamp provided a function - to ''obscure'' part of the message - and,in this case,his name....''Mister Zodiac''.] Your solution probably would not be discovered by a computer program because it is in two different languages. Nevertheless, I wonder if anyone has tried to solve the Celebrity Cypher using a computer program. It is curious that the whoever sent this postcard used the elongated postage stamp. And there does seem to be a line (which could be writing) which is covered up by the stamp.
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