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Z32
Jul 29, 2019 19:07:43 GMT -8
Post by David C on Jul 29, 2019 19:07:43 GMT -8
Rubislaw32, Thank you for the invitation.
If I may address your above concerns.... While writing the 'little list' more than eight months after mailing the 'bomb letter', the Zodiac is still dwelling on the fact that 'the bomb' has not been discovered. As far as I am aware, the Zodiac didn't provide additional clues to the last 18 characters of the Z408. He never dropped clues to help with Z340 either. Why not? Or more importantly, why did he continue to provide clues to the location of the bomb? The Zodiac, really, really wanted someone to find that bomb. How better to motivate a solution of the location than to threaten a school bus full of children? In the Zodiac's mind at least, the Z32 was so straightforward, so simple that surely someone would figure it out. Yet, eight months later no one had. Why did the Zodiac want someone so badly to go to that location? If his true intent was to blow up a busload of children, why send out clues to the location at all? The threat of a bus bomb was the cheese. As drawn, the bomb would have never worked (and Zodiac knew this). The normally detail oriented Zodiac threw together enough of a schematic to concern the cops. But, even correcting the numerous errors in the schematic and overcoming the logistics of possibly hundreds of pounds of explosive on a well traveled road, the bomb would have been set off by the first big rig that drove past on the first morning after it was put in place. No, the Zodiac had a surprise for whoever solved the bomb location. Perhaps he even hid a couple of empty 50 gallon drums under a bridge to draw his victims closer to his true intent. Although providing no clues to the location of the bomb in the text of the 'little list' (that we know of) both diagrams do contain clues: The most obvious clue in the letter implies that numbers must be part of the cipher. The Zodiac states that radians are used. Radians are expressed in numbers! It would have been much more difficult finding the correct location without knowing that radians were used. The other half of that same clue '& inches along the radians.' implies both that numbers are used and those numbers are incredibly accurate. No 'turn left at the river' or 'go one half mile past the windmill'. Any proposed solution to the bomb location that doesn't involve multiple digit numbers doesn't meet the clues provided by the 'little list'. The second 'little list' clue to the bomb location is much less descriptive. I see no text in the little list letter to believe that the Zodiac symbol with the kill count must be placed on Mt Diablo. I believe that this Zodiac symbol provides a much closer view of the bomb location itself. Nowhere else in Zodiac's letters do we find SFPD's ignoble 0 count drawn so thickly. This 'zero' literally means ground zero! Ground zero will be found close to an intersection (represented by the 'cross-hairs of the Zodiac symbol) . Which intersection is specified by the Zodiac's kill count written so closely to the horizontal line which means State Road 113. Road 113 happens to lie on the magnetic north bearing from Mt Diablo. Go to Google Earth and find my proposed location at 38 11 10.7 N x 121 48 43.6 W or look at the drone and satellite photos on ZodiacZ32.com. Note: The kill count Zodiac symbol has North on the left.
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Z32
Jul 29, 2019 20:45:12 GMT -8
Post by Rubislaw32 on Jul 29, 2019 20:45:12 GMT -8
These are all good and reasonable questions,David C,....but,of course the questions being largely of a rhetorical nature,for the solutions,from the Zodiac,himself,have yet to be revealed.
I will definitely make a point of visiting your site,again.
''Preperation'' before attempting a solution,can be of help,and should not be underestimated....as you clearly illustrate.
But,at some point,one has to actually get down and dirty [...to coin a corny phrase...],and actually have a go at solving the ciphers [?].
With the ''408'',I was more interested in the ''Concerned Citizen'' 's and FBI solution,than that of the Harden's....since the two former ones ''do'' correct a few spelling errors,that were ''not'' actually deliberate.The resulting conclusion is....that the FBI had concluded that the Zodiac,had deployed 8 polyphonic symbols...and as another consequence,suggests that the Zodiac was,all too well aware that there would be 8 different possible combinations,for the final 18 character solutions.In effect,that there was ''no'' single solution to those remaining 18 characters,as an anagram to be solved.
With the ''340'',I found that the Zodiac [IMO] had deployed ''6'' polyphonic symbols,in a primary solution,that still required 56% of it to be solved,as a series of anagrams.
With Z32,I found that the solution could be ''unearthed'' by assessing the ''cryptic'' clues available [..as in a cryptic crossword puzzle...]....in contrast to ''cryptographic'' clues...which of course,would be ''unprovable'',anyway.
The aforementioned,is just a slant from experiences gained by actually ''having a go'' at decryption.
Yes,''preperation'' is a wise idea...but the ciphers remain like ''edifices unexplored''....without ''getting down and dirty''.and having a go.
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Z32
Jul 30, 2019 20:34:58 GMT -8
Post by David C on Jul 30, 2019 20:34:58 GMT -8
The first principle in the Zodiac ciphers is that the Zodiac wanted them solved. They can be solved. The Z32 is a simple longitude x latitude location of a hypothetical bus bomb. I've started playing with the last 18 of the Z408. Since the last 18 use the same symbols as the first 390 characters, the Zodiac may have used a 'one off' technique to encode the last 18. An example would be a double-encoding. For instance using a Vigenere key word to double encrypt the last 18. Zodiac would have written the last eighteen in plain text. Then he encoded the last eighteen using the same technique as the first 390 characters. He followed this up with a second technique. One thing to note is that, in a portion of the Z32 as well as the last line of the Z408 the characters are all either vertically symmetrical (ie A, O, I) or the Zodiac uses a backwards character as a symbol. To the untrained eye, reading the code normally from left to right yields gibberish. But a viable code can be read from right to left as well. The Zodiac's cyphers will be solved as a continuum. Breaking the first 390 characters of the Z408 will help solve the last 18. Deciphering the characters of the Z32, will help in the solution of the Z340. Perhaps the same characters are even used in both? Most certainly the last word in the first line of the Z32 is 'NORTH'. Does that help solve the Z340? The Zodiac had two weeks to come up with the Z340. He knew the last 18 of the Z408 was not solved. My bet is that whatever technique he used on the last 18 of the Z408, he used on the Z340. When the Z340 is finally solved, the last 18 of the Z408 will follow shortly thereafter. The Zodiac's use of dashes and periods in the Z340 are significant. Maybe he changes the keyword between dashes? I'm hopeful that just as with the first 390 characters of the Z408 a practical guy or gal with practical techniques will solve the Z340 before the cryptoanalysts do with a supercomputer!
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Z32
Aug 6, 2019 1:23:43 GMT -8
Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 6, 2019 1:23:43 GMT -8
Interesting points,David C.
I would suggest that the sort of ''supercomputers'' to which you refer,have been around much longer than most people imagine.And,started with a requirement specifically,in the field of ''Directional Drilling'',related to the Oil Industry,early to mid 1960's.It was the Oil Industry that could afford their commisioning and,took up more space than now,on installation.Also,more prone to ''shut downs'',when events such as lightning strikes,took place.
Not for solving the Z340,would ''supercomputers'' be of added benefit.This sort of puzzle,is best served in the solving,by a ''decent'' computer...but with ''many hands'' on board,to assist the process.A ''human'' matrix,if you will.
In 2015,Dan Olson,head of the FBI Cryptanalysis Unit,was still admitting that the agency required assistance from the public.
But,no longer so.
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Z32
Sept 5, 2019 21:34:43 GMT -8
Post by David C on Sept 5, 2019 21:34:43 GMT -8
I've been spending a little more time researching the Zodiac letters in relation to the Zodiac ciphers. I think that there are a few more principles that will help resolve the Zodiac 'ciphers'. Pure conjecture but I'm starting to think that the Zodiac only released a single simple cipher and only a portion of the cipher at that. The first 390 characters of the Z408 is the only simple cipher that the Zodiac provided us. The 'sun' zodiac symbol at the end of the next to last line in the Z408 is almost like a stop sign. The last line that follows uses the same characters as the preceding lines. The Zodiac added a second layer of encoding to the last line. The Zodiac may have provided a clue to solving that last line in his 'concerned citizen' letter. The Zodiac was consistent in providing clues when his 'ciphers' weren't solved. He provided these hints from the last line of the Z408 through at least the Z32. I no longer believe that the Z340 is a cipher as much as it is a puzzle. The Z32 is clearly not to be solved as a cipher. All of the supercomputers and all of the intelligentsia trying to solve the remaining 'ciphers' as ciphers have not solved any of the Zodiacs 'puzzles' in the last 50 years and they won't in the next 50. Here are the principles that I think will help. I may add more as I spend more time on this challenge: 1) The Zodiac wanted his puzzles solved, so they can be solved 2) The Zodiac puzzles are not meaningless. There is no evidence that he added 'fill' 3) The Zodiac puzzles and letters are best viewed as a continuum. Zodiac's puzzles evolve starting with the first 390 characters of the Z408. The puzzles continue to evolve through to at least the Zodiac's last hints concerning the Z32 4) The Zodiac provides hints in his letters following each puzzle 5) Brute force deciphering is not enough to solve the remaining puzzles, practical knowledge and context are required 6) The Z408, Z340 and Z32 are not monolithic. They can be broken into distinct pieces. The Zodiac uses delimiters 7) The Zodiac enjoyed toying with us. Purposely misspelling words, reversing words, swapping values 8) The Zodiac was intelligent
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Z32
Sept 6, 2019 3:33:03 GMT -8
Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 6, 2019 3:33:03 GMT -8
Thanks for your further contribution,David C.
I agree,in the main,with every one of your 8 points.These,I believe,are ''truisms'',that should not be underestimated.Nice to see them laid out,as you have done.
To be ''all encompassing'',I would be inclined to include the San Jose cryptogram,of November 1969....which I believe was the Zodiac,in a confident and playful mood,having his first dig at the FBI...who had been ''just'' 4 months,involved in the case,by then.
The FBI's ''initiation'',by the Zodiac,if you will....and I cover my interpretation of that,in this cipher section of the site.
Yes...with Z32,I believe that the Zodiac's clues,were intended as more ''cryptic'',than ''cryptographic''....with the San Francisco 49er's and The Beatles,and ''horticulture'',in its relation to basic explosive chemicals....of particular note.
And,I cover ''my'' and my interpretation of the FBI Cryptanalysis Unit's interpretation of those final 18 characters,in the ''408''....in the thread on the Hardens verses Concerned Citizen,at this site,also.
Thanks again,for a welcome and thought provoking post,to this thread.
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Z32
Feb 10, 2020 20:27:41 GMT -8
Post by David C on Feb 10, 2020 20:27:41 GMT -8
Hi Rubislaw, I do a better job of explaining the longitude by latitude solution for the Z32 on my YouTube video. If you have 30 minutes and want to hear a verbal explanation try it out at: . Best Regards, David C
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Z32
Feb 10, 2020 21:51:58 GMT -8
Post by Rubislaw32 on Feb 10, 2020 21:51:58 GMT -8
Hi Dave C Many thanks for posting your video at this site . I Like it . The consideration that you have put in to the content , and presented very well .An inspiration to those , in particular , that need encouragement to get started , and not fear the Zodiac's ciphers .
I have yet to read David Kahn's Codebreakers book , so I was interested that you own a copy .
It is indeed possible that the Zodiac used the book , for some cryptographic education . In the '' Miscellaneous '' section of this site , I have posted a thread called '' The Puzzle of Lyndon Lafferty's Library Legacy '' , which highlights Lafferty's claims that both the Mikado and Kahn's book were borrowed from local libraries , by the Zodiac .
The Codebreakers book : Civic Center Library , Fairfield . Presumed period of borrowing : February 13th 1968 - August 20th 1969 .
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Z32
Nov 4, 2021 17:54:17 GMT -8
Post by Rubislaw32 on Nov 4, 2021 17:54:17 GMT -8
As now noted, the formal chemical expression for Magnesium Nitrate is : '' Mg(NO3)2 ''.
Comparing it with the Zodiac's apparent orientation clue, in compass form on the map, it does tend to add credence to the notion that the Zodiac's intention was to fool the reader, over any thoughts about '' Magnetic North ''.
The concept of offering a bomb cipher was always to be a game played out, with a guess at where the Zodiac had put his phantom bomb ( 8 o'clock from Mount Diablo ).
The real clue about Magnesium Nitrate indicates that the Zodiac imagined that his bomb would be set off by an incendiary device which, involved Magnesium Nitrate being ignited with a timer system. Not least, that Magnesium Nitrate is also used as a horticultural fertilizer, as well as an ingredient in pyrotechnics.
I KEEP IT HEELED IN AT CANDLESTICK PARK
( As if he had planted a new rose bush that needed occasional tending.)
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