Sandy
Moderator
Zodiac Killer Mystery Moderator
Posts: 428
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Kane
Jun 8, 2014 16:40:49 GMT -8
Post by Sandy on Jun 8, 2014 16:40:49 GMT -8
I think that when he signed with only his logo , it was to mean "Zodiac" or Z . The my name cipher did show My name Kane or Kane my name. That was pretty plain even to the naked eye. I can't say that Kane was not involved in the Zodiac case , because he is the best suspect in the Donna Lass case. He certainly looked like the man I got away from in 1968 ( The arrest picture).I do believe that there were more than one involved in the case. My suspect gave me a clue to 4 of them, so Kane could be one of the 4? I would like to see you get the fingerprints from that arrest in San Mateo and we can check it against the prints I have on Kane. It is so hard for me to think that there are two people who looked so much alike, even had the slightly paralyzed face and lazy eye. On the correct side of the face ? Mine is still alive , he hasn't changed much at all from the picture I took of him in August 1990. The idea that Zodiac used his logo for the letter D fits one of my suspects who has a first, middle and last name starting with the letter D. The number 3 was very important to him, so 3 D's could be a clue ? I do believe that Zodiac did copy others handwriting and could have written the Bettye Harden note, except the way she spelled Bettye was not the norm. She was pretty ill mentally from what I have heard. I think she felt that she could break the 340 and that there would be a horrific message in it. Zodiac was happy that two ordinary people showed up the FBI , Navy intelligence, highly qualified experts. I wonder if he ever sent the Harden's a letter or card ?
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Sandy
Moderator
Zodiac Killer Mystery Moderator
Posts: 428
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Kane
Jun 11, 2014 11:58:19 GMT -8
Post by Sandy on Jun 11, 2014 11:58:19 GMT -8
I agree, that there were/ are more than one involved. The problem I have with Hartnell saying that he felt the guy was in in 20's ,is that he could only be going by the sound of his voice , because he didn't see his face, where as Fouke's saw his face. My voice I am told sounds very young compared to my age. The voice I have heard over the yrs, who claims to be thee Zodiac, still sounds fairly young and I am pretty sure he is in his early 70's. It is a bit raspy ( from chain smoking )but still speaks slowly and without any emotion, very flat / monotoned. I have heard Kanes voice his is raspy as well,not flat and had a slight NY accent. You have to really listen to hear the accent. When he said "down there" is sounded like down dare. (Very east coast.) 20/20 has a copy of his voice, you might ask them if you could get a copy ? Or I will look for it and make one for you. Mine is very short, but I would like to hear the whole tape that 20/20 has on file. I do think that the little guy who I met at a Lake Tahoe casino could have been Kane, becuse he did look like him ,but he had a crew cut. He wanted to get me outside , thank goodness I didn't go ! That was before 1972 and after 1969, so 70-71 is my best guess.I think Kane left Lake Tahoe for Las Vegas around 72 ? Was back in 74 ?
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Kane
Jun 15, 2014 0:22:05 GMT -8
Post by Ricardo on Jun 15, 2014 0:22:05 GMT -8
I think Kane left Lake Tahoe for Las Vegas around 72 ? Was back in 74 ? If so, then Kane would have been in Las Vegas during the years 1972 and 1973 when there were no confirmed letters sent from the Zodiac killer.
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Kane
Jun 20, 2014 11:32:20 GMT -8
Post by WelshChappie on Jun 20, 2014 11:32:20 GMT -8
I think Kane left Lake Tahoe for Las Vegas around 72 ? Was back in 74 ? If so, then Kane would have been in Las Vegas during the years 1972 and 1973 when there were no confirmed letters sent from the Zodiac killer. June, 1970: Kane leave's San Francisco for South Lake Tahoe.
1971 (Month Unknown): Kane leaves S.L.T and moves to the Las Vegas and the La Fonda Apartments on Spring Mountain Rd.
April, 1974: Dana Lull is abducted from Red Rock Canyon in Las Vegas and later found murdered. Kane, at this time, was still residing on Spring Mountain Rd, Las Vegas.
In one of the files the FBI sent me in response to a FOI request, Kane is listed as of 1980 as residing at: 116 Pondersoa,, Skyland, Nevada.
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Kane
Jul 31, 2014 22:14:22 GMT -8
Post by Ricardo on Jul 31, 2014 22:14:22 GMT -8
Where was Kane living in 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, and 1979?
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Kane
Aug 4, 2014 17:06:30 GMT -8
Post by WelshChappie on Aug 4, 2014 17:06:30 GMT -8
Where was Kane living in 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, and 1979? I don't know, researching him is a nightmare as he used so many Aliases. As I mentioned above, I have an FBI Document I obtained via The FOI Act though that lists his residence as of 1980... 
Click image to enlarge and the address is 116 Pondersoa Skyland NV
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Kane
Aug 11, 2014 23:13:10 GMT -8
Post by WelshChappie on Aug 11, 2014 23:13:10 GMT -8
Well I think going by the known behaviour of Zodiac, all the known actions he took, is consistent with one suspect only IMO, and that's Kane. Why? Because Zodiac did everything that someone suffering frontal lobe Brain Injury would be expected. - Speech and language: The frontal lobe controls speech and language production, damage to this area of the brain often leaves the person with a slowed speech production rate.
- Impairment of Motor Function: This often leaves the sufferer with, and I quote directly from Brain-BehaviourOptimization.com: "a slow or shuffling Gait and stopped posture."
- Lack of self/situational awareness. "Disturbances of impaired self-awareness are also common after traumatic brain injury. The orbitofrontal areas of the frontal lobe are responsible for monitoring the individual's intrapersonal world. In an examination of patients with CT/MRI confirmed focal frontal lesions, Leduc, Herron, Greenberg, Eslinger and Grattan (1999) found deficits in social self-awareness (measured with a validated scale) in patients with orbital frontal damage."
- Lack of impulse control.
- Disinhibition.
- Self-Centeredness and/or Egocentric.
- Childishness and immature comments and actions.
- Inappropriate Humour/Tactless.
- Anti-Social Behaviour/Non consideration for consequences of own actions.
As Dr Stephen Igou, Founder & Creator of BrainInjury.Org, put it: The frontal lobes of the brain make us more human and less animal. When injury occurs, the balance between intellectual and animal propensity is destroyed.
It's been claimed that someone with 'Brain Damage' simply couldn't create complex Ciphers, avoid slipping up etc etc but that's a totally unjustified claim because with frontal lobe injury/damage, many aspects of the self are effected like speech, motor function, short term memory, lacks ability to empathise and a range of other changes but one thing that frontal damage does not impact upon is the persons IQ or level of intellectual function. Now that is not me picking and choosing to decide this because it suits my agenda here, it's medically recognised as factual. The person's intelligence, their IQ, is no different post frontal lobe damage to what it was functioning at prior to damage occurring.
And many other symptoms I won't go over here now. But the lack of self awareness is something I was writing about earlier in this very thread saying I simply cannot accept that Zodiac's irrational response and actions at Presidio Heights are something he's aware of and is wilfully responding to the situation in this lackadaisical manner, totally uninterested or appearing unconcerned that he's at the Cab with a corpse and yet takes time to wipe the interior down and then exit, then wipe the exterior before shuffling off down Cherry and totally ignoring the entrance to Presidio at the top of Cherry that any consciously aware and normal killer would likely take because it significantly lessens the chances of being seen and/or detained. This shows both a lack of self awareness, and the poor risk assessment.
And Fouke did comment that of all the photographs of suspects he'd been shown or asked to view, Kane was and is the best likeness to the white guy he saw on Jackson.
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Kane
Aug 12, 2014 13:25:57 GMT -8
Post by MikeR on Aug 12, 2014 13:25:57 GMT -8
Hi-
How far does a lack of "situational awareness" go? When "Kane as Zodiac" saw the cops he sure tried to get away. And after that he didn't exactly put himself in any threat of being caught, since he watched the search from some safe place. Why didn't he just wander aimlessly around the search area?
Mike
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Kane
Aug 15, 2014 14:54:33 GMT -8
Post by WelshChappie on Aug 15, 2014 14:54:33 GMT -8
Hi- How far does a lack of "situational awareness" go? When "Kane as Zodiac" saw the cops he sure tried to get away. And after that he didn't exactly put himself in any threat of being caught, since he watched the search from some safe place. Why didn't he just wander aimlessly around the search area? Mike Well here's an expert's explanation:
Behavior and Frontal lobe impairment. Excerpts from The Executive Brain.
Excerpts by Michael Cohen, Dir. of Education, Center for Brain Training. , Elkhonon Goldberg, PhD*
Overall, when there are problems in the PFC the organization of daily life becomes difficult and internal supervision goes awry. People with PFC problems often do things they later regret, exhibiting problems with impulse control. They also experience problems with attention span, distractibility, procrastination, poor judgment and problems expressing themselves.
Test anxiety along with social anxiety also may be hallmarks of problems in the PFC. Situations that require concentration, impulse control and quick reactions are often hampered by PFC problems. Tests require concentration and the retrieval of information. Many people with PFC problems experience difficulties in test situations because they have trouble activating this part of the brain under stress, even if they have adequately prepared for the test. In a similar way, social situations require concentration, impulse control and dealing with uncertainty. Pfc deactivation often cause a person's mind to "go blank" in conversation which lead to being uncomfortable in social
And Medscape offers insight into Neuropsychiatric Sequelae of a Traumatic Brain Injury: Executive function involving the frontal lobe-basal ganglionic-thalamic circuits is responsible for establishing goals, planning, initiating, sequencing, and inhibiting responses.[27] Frontal lobe injuries impair executive function, conceptual reasoning, and decision making. Patients with frontal lobe damage have difficulty with self monitoring and regulation. These deficits may significantly interfere with a patient's ability to cooperate with any type of psychotherapy or behavioral therapy.
Reading several different sites and professional opinions it seems that Cognitive Dysfunction, or Brain Fog, plays an overwhelming role in situational or social unawareness. Visual Cues are needed in situations for a person to react to or realize the type of action needed to appropriately respond with. I suppose, and this is my own personal view and example to use, its like a man coming across a home that is on fire and the man simply watching with no concept of the possibility of lives at risk until a visual cue, such as a occupant smashing out a window from inside and yelling 'HELP ME' is given to the Brain Injured Citizen.
You and I would automatically wonder and have concern for the home to have people inside it but to a person suffering Frontal Lobe Impairment, he just see's a building on fire and need's an active cue to connect a home on fire with possibility of occupants who reside there being inside.
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Kane
Aug 15, 2014 15:29:04 GMT -8
Post by WelshChappie on Aug 15, 2014 15:29:04 GMT -8
As for where, assuming Kane was responsible for a moment, would have disappeared to? My Own opinion, a residence in that area, sheltered by someone who, lets say, was out in their drive awaiting the shuffling man's arrivial to offer him a basement to conceal himself in. Again, simply my personal interpretation and opinion but the Zodiac's 'Death Machine' letter is written about the killer and his location and it's a theory that, if true, clearly see's the writer stating that at least two people are behind the Persona of the Red Phantom, AKA Zodiac. Here's the statements made by 'ZODIAC' in this communication:
Z Said: "The death machine is all ready made."
My interpretation of this: The machine of death is a metaphor for the Killer we know as Zodiac.
Z Said: I would have sent you pictures but you would be nasty enough to trace them back to developer + then to me, so I shalldescribe my masterpiece to you."
My Interpretation: He would have sent them pictures of the Death Machine, aka The Zodiac, but he fears them being traced by an eagle eyed developer and he's not talking as he wants you to think, about photograph developer either. He's hinting that if he sent them photo's of where he had hid the death machine then they'd call in land developers and they would then discover in which area or house this photograph was taken in or from.
Z Said: the system checks out from one end to the other in my tests.
My Interpretation is: What system has he tested? I think he's more than likely referring to having carried out dry run's from the Theatre District to Maple in P. Heights and the time it takes along with the time and availability to disappear into residence A before authorities arrive. Why do I think this, well, the next couple of comments he makes suggests he is talking about the search for the wanted man along West Pacific Avenue....
Z Said: What you do not know is whether the death machine is at the sight or whether it is being stored in my basement for future use.
My Interpretation here in what is being said is both clear and controversial. To me, the writer here is telling the readers if they can decipher this symbolic set of words and phrases into the actual events they are representative of then the implication is simple, the person writing this letter is not the actual killer Zodiac, but is actually the man with whom Zodiac the killer had met up with and disappeared into the home of on Oct 11 because the writer is Saying in regards to the search for the shooter "you don't know if the Killer is in sight or whether it (or he) is being stored (concealed) in my basement for future use (until next time folks...)
Z said: I think you do not have the manpower to stop this one by continually searching the road sides looking for this thing.
My Interpretation....Clearly he's saying you can have all the manpower in the World to search for Zodiac that you like and it will do you no good at all if you are searching in the wrong area or place like searching the road sides, West Pacific Avenue is a long roadside adjourning the Presidio that was searched with the most rigorous attention to detail in looking for the suspect. Makes no difference because he was never there.
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Kane
Aug 15, 2014 15:49:51 GMT -8
Post by WelshChappie on Aug 15, 2014 15:49:51 GMT -8
And just as a side note to offer evidence to support my earlier claim that intellectual IQ level is not diminished by Frontal Lobe Brain Injury, here's what the Neurologist for the Centre for Neuro Skills writes:
"Disturbance of motor function is typically characterized by loss of fine movements and strength of the arms, hands and fingers (Kuypers, 1981). Complex chains of motor movement also seem to be controlled by the frontal lobes (Leonard et al., 1988). Patients with frontal lobe damage exhibit little spontaneous facial expression, which points to the role of the frontal lobes in facial expression (Kolb & Milner, 1981). Broca's Aphasia, or difficulty in speaking, has been associated with frontal damage by Brown (1972).
An interesting phenomenon of frontal lobe damage is the insignificant effect it can have on traditional IQ testing. Researchers believe that this may have to do with IQ tests typically assessing convergent rather than divergent thinking. Frontal lobe damage seems to have an impact on divergent thinking, or flexibility and problem solving ability. There is also evidence showing lingering interference with attention and memory even after good recovery from a TBI (Stuss et al., 1985)."
PS: My reasons for adding this as proof that IQ and intelligence is not effected or reduced by Injury to the frontal area of the Brain is Tom V's previous professional medial diagnosis that Kane could not have been Zodiac because he couldn't have had the mental capacity to plan then execute Zodiac's known crimes. Although what high level of sophisticated planning Zodiac engaged in that Tom seems ti suggest is clearly evident I don't have a clue of. How much intellectual pre-planning and high level decision making goes into a man driving dark lanes until happening upon a car in a turn in gated area is not something I can really see the logic and likelihood for.
Quite how a clearly opportunistic killer like Zodiac is turned into a murderous expert planning machine is again something only Thomas can answer. Same with stopping a cab and directing him to a specific point before shooting him, how much planning does one need in order to put your arm out to flag down a cabbie?
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Kane
Aug 24, 2014 18:23:24 GMT -8
Post by Ricardo on Aug 24, 2014 18:23:24 GMT -8
Thanks for this information!
Maybe we can find out if he was living there before 1980.
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Sandy
Moderator
Zodiac Killer Mystery Moderator
Posts: 428
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Kane
Sept 19, 2014 13:50:55 GMT -8
Post by Sandy on Sept 19, 2014 13:50:55 GMT -8
Welch Chappie, I for one would like to commend you for all of the work that you have done in getting the information you have on Kane . I am sure Harvey would be impressed with what you have collected !
I have heard Kane talk, it was a monotone voice like what we have been told Zodiac ‘s voice was like, it was also a husky sounding voice . His walk in the video of I believe was the "Now It Can Be Told" TV show, showed him walking slowly in a sort of “shuffle” with his slippers on, for only a few feet.
And I might add that he did look very much like the man I got away from in Vallejo 1968. I went to VPD with the information I had of the man I was told was Kane. Captain Roy C. at VPD said that the picture I took of my stalker, looked like Larry Kane. IT seems that VPD did take me seriously , because the investigation happened right about that time.
I have perfect prints of Kane’s right hand and would like very much to compare what you have to those I have. Thanks again for all your hard work!
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Post by WelshChappie on Sept 20, 2014 7:09:34 GMT -8
Welch Chappie, I for one would like to commend you for all of the work that you have done in getting the information you have on Kane . I am sure Harvey would be impressed with what you have collected ! I have heard Kane talk, it was a monotone voice like what we have been told Zodiac ‘s voice was like, it was also a husky sounding voice . His walk in the video of I believe was the "Now It Can Be Told" TV show, showed him walking slowly in a sort of “shuffle” with his slippers on, for only a few feet. And I might add that he did look very much like the man I got away from in Vallejo 1968. I went to VPD with the information I had of the man I was told was Kane. Captain Roy C. at VPD said that the picture I took of my stalker, looked like Larry Kane. IT seems that VPD did take me seriously , because the investigation happened right about that time. I have perfect prints of Kane’s right hand and would like very much to compare what you have to those I have. Thanks again for all your hard work! Thank you Sandy, I appreciate it. You have helped me when and where you can regarding Kane I am thankful to you also. "I went to VPD with the information I had of the man I was told was Kane. Captain Roy C. at VPD said that the picture I took of my stalker, looked like Larry Kane."I assume the picture your talking of is this one?  My first instinct was to believe this man was not Lawrence Kane. However, dismissing this as being Kane based on nothing more than 'It doesn't look like him' I realised is not really sensible because if I look at the two photos below and did not know they were, in fact, both photo's of Kane, i'd have probably said that I didn't think the photo on the right was Kane, either. But we know both photo's are of him.   I know you couldn't know it at the time Sandy, but now I have obtained Kane's official FBI file description, we know that 'The' Larry Kane had a scar on his wrist and forehead and that could have ID'd him if it were him.
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Post by WelshChappie on Sept 20, 2014 7:10:33 GMT -8
And Destry Hines, Harvey's son, has given me Kane's finger prints so I have them if you'd like them.
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