Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jan 23, 2015 10:57:11 GMT -8
Well it hasn't escaped my attention that in many of these press articles Kaye is described as 'Handsome' as seen in this feature below: Just reminds me of the description the three girls gave of the man they saw watching them at Lake Berryessa: "Around 40 years of age, good looking. . ." The three girls said he was 25 to 35 , over 6 ft tall and drove a ice blue car like a 1966 Chevy ,which could not have been Zodiac's car, unless he had another smaller car that he could use that day. I say this because of the inside tire measurement of the killers car, which was parked behind Hartnell's car, that had the shoe prints leading to that smaller car. So unless all three of thoses girls were wrong in the car's discription as well as that man, he could not be the killer. I believe that the dentest and his son did see the killer that day. Their discription was closer to what we know. Larry Kane/ Kaye was not a tall man either, his size and age fits Zodiac, more so than a real tall heavy man, who was able to lose almost 100 # in time to kill Paul Stine two weeks later. Being that we know for sure AKA Kane ,Cane,Barton, Kaye used different names , he could have used his friends Kay's name, more so than his friend using Kaye's name. Those two sized suspects ,will always make me think of two different killers. Zodiac was probably a handsome man, I know my suspect was/is. When ever I show the picture I have of one of my suspects , the females always say what a good looking man he is. If it wasn't for is love of killing, I probably would have been attracted to him myself. |
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Post by Galaxie500 on Jan 23, 2015 11:46:29 GMT -8
Well it hasn't escaped my attention that in many of these press articles Kaye is described as 'Handsome' as seen in this feature below: Just reminds me of the description the three girls gave of the man they saw watching them at Lake Berryessa: "Around 40 years of age, good looking. . ." Being that we know for sure AKA Kane ,Cane,Barton, Kaye used different names , he could have used his friends Kay's name, more so than his friend using Kaye's name. That's another (and probably more likely) possibility. There's also this:  (taken from the San Antonio Express. April 30, 1952.)
Same guy? |
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Post by WelshChappie on Jan 23, 2015 18:30:00 GMT -8
Hi- If Zodiac had been a small time crook, this would be of great interest. This article harkens to the old profile that Z was a "known criminal." I think it is much more interesting when you find someone who made bizarre claims about flying saucers as far back as 1947 just to get his name on the front pages of two Bay Area newspapers. THAT sounds more like Z to me than cheating people out of money. Mike MikeR: Qvale didn't just make up the story of seeing a UFO on July 4th, nor would it do his reputation any good to do such a thing. That incident your referring to was confirmed as having happened by several other witnesses who, Like Qvale, reported seeing the UFO Kjell referred to. |
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Post by WelshChappie on Jan 23, 2015 23:54:51 GMT -8
Well it hasn't escaped my attention that in many of these press articles Kaye is described as 'Handsome' as seen in this feature below: Just reminds me of the description the three girls gave of the man they saw watching them at Lake Berryessa: "Around 40 years of age, good looking. . ." The three girls said he was 25 to 35 , over 6 ft tall and drove a ice blue car like a 1966 Chevy ,which could not have been Zodiac's car, unless he had another smaller car that he could use that day. I say this because of the inside tire measurement of the killers car, which was parked behind Hartnell's car, that had the shoe prints leading to that smaller car. So unless all three of thoses girls were wrong in the car's discription as well as that man, he could not be the killer. I believe that the dentest and his son did see the killer that day. Their discription was closer to what we know. Larry Kane/ Kaye was not a tall man either, his size and age fits Zodiac, more so than a real tall heavy man, who was able to lose almost 100 # in time to kill Paul Stine two weeks later. Being that we know for sure AKA Kane ,Cane,Barton, Kaye used different names , he could have used his friends Kay's name, more so than his friend using Kaye's name. Those two sized suspects ,will always make me think of two different killers. Zodiac was probably a handsome man, I know my suspect was/is. When ever I show the picture I have of one of my suspects , the females always say what a good looking man he is. If it wasn't for is love of killing, I probably would have been attracted to him myself. In one of the statements taken, one of the girls stated that the male watching them was "Approx. 40 years of age, well built & good looking." |
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Post by WelshChappie on Jan 24, 2015 8:14:18 GMT -8
MikeR, you commented that. . .
"If Zodiac had been a small time crook, this would be of great interest."
You implying that Zodiac was a law abiding citizen for his entire life until December 20 of 1968? The Father of Criminal Profiling & professional Mind Hunter himself, Mr John Douglas, will tell anyone who cares to listen that the process of 'Becoming' a murderer, specifically, a Serial, doesn't happen overnight and that, to quote Douglas Directly:
"As they grow up they will become more destructive and then will advance to things such as fetishalistic bruglaries, breaking into homes and Peeping Tom type of thing and then, usually around their mid 20's, they become more aggressive....."
Don't take my word for it, here's John Douglas outlining the construction & making of the Serial Killer:
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jan 24, 2015 10:32:15 GMT -8
WC Thank you for this wonderful video. I truly like John Douglas , would love to talk to him and have him tell me about why he thinks my suspect hasn't killed me yet and why so many years this has gone on ?
A lot of what he said clicked. I knew about the serial killer as a child hurting animals , setting fires, bed wetting.
Evolving as the child gets older.
Peeping Tom , we know that Kane was arrested for that. I would like to see more done to prove Kane was or wasn't a serial killer. He was hiding something, to have to change his name so many times. He is still the best suspect I think in the Donna Lass case.
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Post by Galaxie500 on Jan 24, 2015 16:59:45 GMT -8
MikeR, you commented that. . . "If Zodiac had been a small time crook, this would be of great interest."You implying that Zodiac was a law abiding citizen for his entire life until December 20 of 1968? The Father of Criminal Profiling & professional Mind Hunter himself, Mr John Douglas, will tell anyone who cares to listen that the process of 'Becoming' a murderer, specifically, a Serial, doesn't happen overnight and that, to quote Douglas Directly: " As they grow up they will become more destructive and then will advance to things such as fetishalistic bruglaries, breaking into homes and Peeping Tom type of thing and then, usually around their mid 20's, they become more aggressive....." Don't take my word for it, here's John Douglas outlining the construction & making of the Serial Killer: you've probably seen this already, but: criminalprofilingworks.blogspot.com/2011/04/psychology-of-serial-killer.html |
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Post by Galaxie500 on Jan 24, 2015 17:14:21 GMT -8
It shows that Kane was still in NY in 1950, when do you think he and his mother moved to Calif ? Sandy - Kaye left New York some time in the mid-to-late-50's, whereupon he moved to New Orleans. He was married to a woman by the name of Marie Newall (or Nowall, depending on the source.) They divorced after he was arrested in Hattiesburg, Mississippi on a charge of adultery. Unfortunately, that's as far as I've been able to get. I can send you more information if you'd like. |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jan 24, 2015 22:37:25 GMT -8
Thank you very much ! So Larry went to Hollywood two months after that article, perhaps to see Eileen Barton sing and he was arrested there. That may have been what broke them up ? Don't you think that it interesting that one of his friends names was very much like the one he used? (Larry Kay? ) It's definitely bizarre. Do you have any more information pertaining to this incident? If I were forced to speculate, I would guess that the Larry "Kay" in question was carrying a false ID, possibly one that was furnished to him by the 'real' Larry Kaye. Of course, this is merely a guess. I found another artical pertaining to that incident. It wouldn't let me copy and paste , so I will write it out . Hollowood Oct 22 1946 . Three NY motorist charged with beating up two pedestrians who bawled them out after a near-accident today faced a $40,000 damage suit. James and Kathryn Drane said they were almost run down last Oct 15 while crossing Vine St. They said they shouted ,"Why don't you be more careful "? Only to have the cars occupants, Larry Kaye, Larry Kay and Max Schulman, leap from the auto and assult them. |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jan 25, 2015 9:27:12 GMT -8
It shows that Kane was still in NY in 1950, when do you think he and his mother moved to Calif ? Sandy - Kaye left New York some time in the mid-to-late-50's, whereupon he moved to New Orleans. He was married to a woman by the name of Marie Newell (or Nowall, depending on the source.) They divorced after he was arrested in Hattiesburg, Mississippi on a charge of adultery. Unfortunately, that's as far as I've been able to get. I can send you more information if you'd like. Yes I do know about Marie" Newhall" that was the name I was told I think from Harvey Hines? Only I thought it was Valdosa, GA not New Orleans where they married ? |
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Post by Galaxie500 on Jan 25, 2015 9:54:01 GMT -8
Sandy - Kaye left New York some time in the mid-to-late-50's, whereupon he moved to New Orleans. He was married to a woman by the name of Marie Newell (or Nowall, depending on the source.) They divorced after he was arrested in Hattiesburg, Mississippi on a charge of adultery. Unfortunately, that's as far as I've been able to get. I can send you more information if you'd like. Yes I do know about Marie" Newhall" that was the name I was told I think from Harvey Hines? Only I thought it was Valdosa, GA not New Orleans where they married ? Possibly. At the time of their divorce, they appear to have been living in New Orleans. From The Hattiesburg American, September 11, 1959:  and The New Orleans Times-Picayune, March 15, 1960:  |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jan 25, 2015 11:13:30 GMT -8
I have found information that makes me wonder if in fact this Larry Kaye is our Larry Kane /Cane ? I found a Larry Kaye born in NY on 2-25-1925 died in Los Angeles on 5-17-1980. He was in the Navy from 5-12-4 -43 to 5-16-46. ssn 109-18-21--.
That picture shown above is not clear enough to see his features.
Another Lawrence A Kaye born NY 6-26-1923 died 7-27-2004 Las Vegas NV.
Larry Kaye NY obit. Oct 1968, brothers Mac Kamin and Danny Kaye, wife Fae Kaye son Buddy died in Nov.1958 NY.
L .Kaye divorce 8-4-67 Bronx NY ( no details as to whom he was divorcing ? )
There were many of them all born close if not 1924.
I also looked up Larry Kay’s –Lawrence E Kay born 8-26-26 “Riverside”
Lawrence Kay born 8-26-26 died 1-5-2010 in Navy oct 4 44 to 6-26-46.
Lawrence Henry Kay born 12-4-24 died 11-22-79 military 10-11-43 to 3-5-46 ssn 483-18-88--.
Found a Maria M Newhall born in Ill on 3-12-26 died in FL 11-11-95 Did not find a marriage for her to any Larry’s.
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Sandy
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Zodiac Killer Mystery Moderator
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Post by Sandy on Jan 25, 2015 11:26:54 GMT -8
Galaxie500, Nice find , Harvey must have given me the wrong information, because I was writing notes as he told me about Kane.
I am still not sure that Kaye is in fact kane/Cane.There were just too many of them from NY.
Harvey did have a lot of good information on Kane, but not sure if he had all of the correct information , because I was able to find Cane in business in Nothern Calif. , that he didn't have.
And the one arrest of a person named Larry Kane, did not look at all like Larry Cane/Kane. That is the picture I picked out of the line up he gave Kathleen Johns and I. That man could not be Larry Kane/Cane, because he is still alive and is the same man I got away from in 1968 Vallejo.
So something is very wrong.
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Post by Galaxie500 on Jan 25, 2015 11:29:30 GMT -8
I have found information that makes me wonder if in fact this Larry Kaye is our Larry Kane /Cane ? I found a Larry Kaye born in NY on 2-25-1925 died in Los Angeles on 5-17-1980. He was in the Navy from 5-12-4 -43 to 5-16-46. ssn 109-18-21--. That picture shown above is not clear enough to see his features. Another Lawrence A Kaye born NY 6-26-1923 died 7-27-2004 Las Vegas NV. Larry Kaye NY obit. Oct 1968, brothers Mac Kamin and Danny Kaye, wife Fae Kaye son Buddy died in Nov.1958 NY. L .Kaye divorce 8-4-67 Bronx NY ( no details as to whom he was divorcing ? ) There were many of them all born close if not 1924. I also looked up Larry Kay’s –Lawrence E Kay born 8-26-26 “Riverside” Lawrence Kay born 8-26-26 died 1-5-2010 in Navy oct 4 44 to 6-26-46. Lawrence Henry Kay born 12-4-24 died 11-22-79 military 10-11-43 to 3-5-46 ssn 483-18-88--. Found a Maria M Newhall born in Ill on 3-12-26 died in FL 11-11-95 Did not find a marriage for her to any Larry’s. The Larry Kaye in the article WelshChappie posted is almost certainly the correct one, as the burglary charge (1952) is listed on his rap sheet. The adultery charge is also listed. (Thanks for transcribing that article, btw.) |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jan 25, 2015 11:35:15 GMT -8
It might be a good idea to get a copy of that divorce, to perhaps see the birthdate for this Larry Kaye, it will also show where they were married? If I remember correctly, there was something of question Harvey mentioned when he asked her about her ex husband ?
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