|
Post by KJ on Nov 28, 2014 19:30:39 GMT -8
I do. I just so happen to know absolutely everything i'm afraid. ;-) Excellent. 1. Who IS Zodiac? 2. Do you happen to know the arrival route of Foukes and Zelms? Where did they turn onto Jackson, and from which direction?
|
|
|
Post by KJ on Nov 28, 2014 19:32:08 GMT -8
walking casually north along Jackson Sorry, casually EAST along Jackson...
|
|
|
Post by WelshChappie on Nov 28, 2014 23:42:07 GMT -8
I do. I just so happen to know absolutely everything i'm afraid. ;-) Excellent. 1. Who IS Zodiac? 2. Do you happen to know the arrival route of Foukes and Zelms? Where did they turn onto Jackson, and from which direction? Yes, Fouke & Zelms were going North on Presidio Avenue & had just passed Washington Street when the call came over the radio. Don then turns West onto Jackson Street.
|
|
|
Post by KJ on Nov 28, 2014 23:44:04 GMT -8
Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by WelshChappie on Feb 26, 2015 12:33:17 GMT -8
Let's remember, as first officer on scene Armond Pelissetti is informed by the teen's who called in the crime, the suspect, they tell him, has just gone down Cherry Street literally seconds before Armond pulls up. So Armond tells us that he broadcasts the correct description of a White Male and not Black, and then takes off after the armed and extremely dangerous suspect on foot (which I don't believe for a second because he is a sitting duck for a shooter hiding in what aArmond himself acknowledges as "Innumerable Alcoves and parked cars" for suspect to be concealed in or behind. It also makes no sense to walk after the suspect if you have a vehicle for maximum chance of catching up with the fleeing suspect.)
So the situation is this: Armond is now hot on the heel's of the fleeing suspect going after him down Cherry St. Closing fast from the other direction coming up Jackson Street to head off any fleeing suspect is Don and Eric. Where does Zodiac go? Into or onto a driveway of a house possibly? After Don see's the lumbering white male turn onto the steps of 3712 Jackson, I believe him when he says he continued on by. I suspect that the following then occurs:
Don continues up Jackson and encounters Armond either further up Jackson, or on Cherry as Armond is coming this way on the statement of the witnesses who told him the suspect has just gone down Cherry. I believe that Armond is not on foot as he claims, but is driving in pursuit of suspect when he see's Don and Eric approaching. The two cop cars stop alongside each other and Armond tell's Don, as Don said he did, that he is 'looking for the white male that has just gone down the street.' Armond probably gives Don a brief description based on the teen witnesses testimony and Don then tell's Armond "Ohhh Shit, that guy we saw duck onto a driveway at the intersection matches that description.' Armond, facing that direction toward or already on Jackson, speeds off down the road to the house on the corner and Fouke & Zelms speed off around onto West Pacific Avenue telling Armond they will take the back-road to cut off his escape route should he run from Armond coming from the front. Armond pulls up across the street from 3712 and looks across and see's, probably to his astonishment, that the man who Fouke saw turn onto the steps, is still there but now lurks on the garage driveway. Why does this make sense? Here's why...
If Fouke pulls up next to the suspect on Jackson, he would do so right next to him because he is coming up Jackson on the same side of the street that suspect is coming down, so there would be no need to call him over from anywhere. Zodiac said remember, a cop car pulled up and one of them 'called me over.' Armond is claiming he walked down Cherry and Jackson to eliminate himself as the cop who Zodiac refers to as having called him over.
But the most compelling reason for me believing it was Pelissetti and not Fouke who spoke with Zodiac is this: Armond freely admits that he encountered a white male somewhere in the vicinity of Jackson & Maple and openly admits that He asked that Gentleman had he seen anyone go by in the area and that this white guy told Armond 'No.' Well isn't that highly coincidental? Zodiac states in his letter that this is the exact question that the cop who called him over had asked him also. So, either Armond asked the same question to two different white males that night, which he has never claimed to have done, or , the one white guy that he did ask was the Zodiac.
|
|
|
Post by WelshChappie on Feb 26, 2015 15:15:39 GMT -8
Here is a written report on Pelissetti's report, if that makes sense. Reminds me of the 'Let's have a meeting to discuss the meeting we have next week.' Anyway, just for resource purpose if nothing else.... Click image to enlarge:
|
|
|
Post by WelshChappie on Feb 26, 2015 15:32:35 GMT -8
Armond also said regarding the subsequent letter on October 14th that: "We received a letter with a piece of Paul Stine's shirt which left no doubt that the person writing the letter was the murderer."
You'd assume so, wouldn't you. But is that not what the sender wants to 'prove' by sending it in the first place? The fact the letter comes with a swatch of Stines shirt does not have to mean that it were written by the man who shot & killed Paul. The actual killer could have an accomplice who doesn't take part in the kills themselves but simply writes the letters. Then you'd have the killer killing Paul, ripping a swatch of Paul's shirt off and taking it to his accomplice and his accomplice then writes the letter and encloses the piece of 'Evidence' that, to most casual observers, is evidence of the writer and the killer being one and the same.
How do we know this was the very reason Z sent the swatch of shirt? If you want to create this illusion & misdirect a persons attention using the power of suggestion, then surely this is what he would do. He knows that people will put the shirt piece and letter together and assume that 2 plus 2 is 5. Why would it be in Zodiac's interest to do this? Simple! If the police are trying to catch the killer by comparing all suspects handwriting to that of 'The Killers' handwriting in the letters then, they could have the killer sat right across from them and clear him because his handwriting doesn't match.
|
|
|
Post by WelshChappie on Apr 8, 2015 16:06:24 GMT -8
But going back to the point you made Norse:
"Why the whole song and dance in the cab? Wiping it down for prints? Handling Stine's body in the fashion described by the teens? Granted, they could have been somewhat mistaken as to precisely what Z was doing (as Welsh suggests above) - but he was doing something, a rather elaborate something. Pretty messy stuff, all things said and done, and it does NOT fit the idea of someone who has planned the thing well. It does fit the idea of a murder gone slightly wrong, though."
The only two possibilities I can come up with as to why he hung around and faffed about with and at the cab are:
A and 1) He was so egocentric and arrogant that in his mind there is simply no cause to rush to escape this scene because no matter what happened or what the Meanies did, they simply would not catch him because he considered himself literally unarrestable due to his superiority in body and mind compared with mere normal folk such as the SFPD employ or....
B and 2) He had some sort of Brain Injury. Frontal Lobe damage can cause someone to lose their impulse control and impair their ability to react appropriately to the situation at hand. So an offender may act out impulsively and then be unable to react appropriately to that impulsive act. Sometimes visual/audible cue's are needed to kickstarts the response such as hearing a police siren, seeing a car's lights in the distance, etc.
Multi-Tasking becomes a literal impossibility & the person can only focus on one thing at a time so that, in this instance, the removal of his prints from in and exterior of the cab becomes all consuming for his focus until maybe an audible cue like Armond activating his siren distracts the Zodiac's attention and he realises this is now the priority. The Zodiac only reacted to the Prowl Car and Fouke when it was presented right in front of him and he seemed almost to panic and turned and took the closest available route to avoid the oncoming cop car by ascending the steps to a property. Prior to this, it was as if this guy had no concept or ability to assess the risk of his own possible capture, not until the visual cue of Don and Eric's police car presented itself.
Also would explain why he spoke in a monotone because people with Frontal Lobe Injury to the left hemisphere usually no longer are able to speak in a flowing and consistent manner and stutter or fumble for words. Treatment for this verbal Apraxia is slowing the speech of the sufferer and teaching them to speak words as if they were to the beat of a drum. Apraxia doesn't just disrupt the brains filter for speech, it also goes hand in hand with Ataxia, a disruption of motion to the limbs. Ataxia is defined as:
"A characteristic type of irregular, uncoordinated movement that can manifest itself in many possible ways, such as asthenia, asynergy, delayed reaction time, and dyschronometria. Individuals with cerebellar ataxia also display instability of gait. As the condition progresses, walking is characterized by a widened base and high stepping, as well as staggering and lurching from side to side."
That is absolutely consistent with what Don Fouke stated in his 2007 interview when he recalled:
"He (Zodiac) sort of looked down.....Perhaps this.... lumbering Gait, stumbling along like a semi limp may come up in my mind." In his original memo he said "Subject at no time appeared to be in a hurry and walked with a shuffling lope, slightly bent forward with head down."
Ataxia symptoms may also include: "intention tremor (coarse trembling, accentuated over the execution of voluntary movements, possibly involving the head and eyes as well as the limbs and torso."
What is that to do with anything? Ask Bryan Hartnell. He said that when Zodiac came over to tighten his restraints that Cecelia had bound him with loosely, He noticed that the masked man's hand's were trembling to such a extent that he noticed it and asked Zodiac was he nervous. Zodiac responded by laughing and saying "Yeah....Something like that."
A brain injury would explain everything that seems unexplainable as to why Zodiac may have did the things he did, and react the way he reacted.
|
|
|
Post by WelshChappie on Apr 8, 2015 18:17:49 GMT -8
In a nut-shell, here's a Qualified Dr. describing the lack of appropriate reaction and/or awareness in TBI patients:
|
|
|
Post by Zydeco on Jun 1, 2015 15:23:22 GMT -8
I'm very keen to hear what everybody thinks. I'll try to be nutshell-brief. Bare bones, you might say. I believe this was premeditated murder. Paul Stine was in the Minotaur position (see Black Dahlia). (Blood spread shows he was sitting up for a while first.)
I think he was working undercover for the San Francisco Chronicle. I think when he said he was going away, he meant for Canadian Thanksgiving, and was just about to leave for BC. I may have tracked down where he was going. I hope I sent LE the right link for that!
Paul may have arranged to meet the Zodiac at 'Mason'. I believe Zodiac (whoever he was) was very rich and, even though he knew Paul, insisted on paying. (Wasn't Paul also a PhD student?) Zodiac would be pretending to help Paul (investigate the drug-dealers and cults). I think Paul knew exactly whose house they were going to. We should be able to figure it out. And to my mind, there are only 3 or 4 possibilities - all, apart from Hunter, owned by Norwegians.
I don't want to go over things on other threads, as I know it's frowned upon - but how else can we solve it? There was obviously no dog. I think Officer Fouke saw the Zodiac, and Officer Pelissetti saw the lookout. I think the lookout was a Kvale brother, probably Kjell. (My suspect was Ragnar's friend, but knew the whole family). Kjell said odd things. (For another thread.) Forgive my spelling, as long as you know what I mean.
I am extremely hesitant to say any more, due to my experience at ZKS. I don't like the way they treat people, and I don't need it.
I think Officer Fouke is a good man who will eventually say who Zodiac was. His family had clearly been threatened. My mum used to say, if you can't say something nice, say nothing. So I'll leave Officer Pelissetti out. And of course, all I have is my own opinions.
I think the Zodiac was blood-free and barrell-chested because he had a raincoat stuffed up his jook. I think he sat in the front. I think he was right handed, but shot with his left hand.
Any thoughts? Please feel free to correct me, or ignore me if you think I'm crazy.
|
|
Sandy
Moderator
Zodiac Killer Mystery Moderator
Posts: 428
|
Post by Sandy on Jun 1, 2015 18:33:36 GMT -8
I'm very keen to hear what everybody thinks. I'll try to be nutshell-brief. Bare bones, you might say. I believe this was premeditated murder. Paul Stine was in the Minotaur position (see Black Dahlia). (Blood spread shows he was sitting up for a while first.) I think he was working undercover for the San Francisco Chronicle. I think when he said he was going away, he meant for Canadian Thanksgiving, and was just about to leave for BC. I may have tracked down where he was going. I hope I sent LE the right link for that! Paul may have arranged to meet the Zodiac at 'Mason'. I believe Zodiac (whoever he was) was very rich and, even though he knew Paul, insisted on paying. (Wasn't Paul also a PhD student?) Zodiac would be pretending to help Paul (investigate the drug-dealers and cults). I think Paul knew exactly whose house they were going to. We should be able to figure it out. And to my mind, there are only 3 or 4 possibilities - all, apart from Hunter, owned by Norwegians. I don't want to go over things on other threads, as I know it's frowned upon - but how else can we solve it? There was obviously no dog. I think Officer Fouke saw the Zodiac, and Officer Pelissetti saw the lookout. I think the lookout was a Kvale brother, probably Kjell. (My suspect was Ragnar's friend, but knew the whole family). Kjell said odd things. (For another thread.) Forgive my spelling, as long as you know what I mean. I am extremely hesitant to say any more, due to my experience at ZKS. I don't like the way they treat people, and I don't need it. I think Officer Fouke is a good man who will eventually say who Zodiac was. His family had clearly been threatened. My mum used to say, if you can't say something nice, say nothing. So I'll leave Officer Pelissetti out. And of course, all I have is my own opinions. I think the Zodiac was blood-free and barrell-chested because he had a raincoat stuffed up his jook. I think he sat in the front. I think he was right handed, but shot with his left hand. Any thoughts? Please feel free to correct me, or ignore me if you think I'm crazy.
|
|
|
Post by Zydeco on Jun 1, 2015 18:56:40 GMT -8
(Incidentally, due to the initial lack of blood pooling outside the cab, I am not suggesting the Zodiac necessarily placed Paul in that position.)
|
|
Sandy
Moderator
Zodiac Killer Mystery Moderator
Posts: 428
|
Post by Sandy on Jun 1, 2015 19:06:50 GMT -8
I do believe that the Stine shooting was premeditated.Don't believe that Stine was undercover for the SF Chron.
I don't believe Don Harden wrote the Christmas card to Donna's sister.
I think Z was right handed, hid his gun in his right hand,while seated in the front seat, then turned towards Paul, quickly put the gun to his head and shot with his right hand.
I do believe that the bloody print was Zodiac's who left it there by mistake, after removing his gloves to get into Stine's pockets.I don't believe that Zodiac took Stine's glasses and wore them, he wore his own.
|
|
|
Post by Zydeco on Jun 1, 2015 19:54:50 GMT -8
Was the letter written by the hoaxer? I'm sure you're right about the gun, but it just niggles me. I agree with you on most of the rest too. Yes, whoever left the patent prints may be the key.
Robert Graysmith is just too much for me. I find him unconvincing, and part of a concerted effort to frame paedophile RLA.
Oh, I do agree the Zodiac was looking for something Paul had! No doubt in my mind. Thank you Sandy. Keep thinking. We can do it.
|
|
|
Post by Zydeco on Jun 1, 2015 19:56:21 GMT -8
I'll need to look into that Christmas card. Has Robin Smith seen it? Robin, are you there?
|
|