I say there is a connection of the zodiac killer or killers to the TGD band in a article for a new Grateful Dead book - So Many Roads -the reporter states that Jerry garcia dedicated a concert to the zodiac killer and was terrified of meeting him , I think because it is very possible he met Garcia they the band , were accessable in the haight district of SF.
10/30 /66 in San Jose at the Dance of the dead about the time cheri was murdered
played @ San Francisco state 10/20/66 think Cheri went to see her boyfriend that weekend there too, if Z worked security there he could have carded her, then has everything he needs to find her.
12/20/68 @ Shrine Auditorium LA
July 5 69 in Chicago ...one site says 4 and 5 th
sept 27 69 @ the filmore SF
The Summer of Love concert 10/12/69 @ golden gate park SF about a mile from Wash & Cherry st. note according to the book ( I found at Amazon a preview and read that) TGD had a clause in their contract that they got to play Sat 10pm and always did originally a show was in SF @ Filmore ? but moved to here this huge concert 100 k + ,was really a 3 day event ,so were they almost playing @ the time of Stines killing
on 8/8/69 hey played a festival at Paradise valley BC Canada near Sqeaumish BC
the Dance of the dead was not a concert, but a private performance for a college Halloween costume party
The Summer of Love concert they were listed to play ( on the poster) but may not have attended but there is a video of them playing Golden gate park in 69 to a huge crowd .
if true that Garcia the some what Leader or spokesman for the band dedicated a concert to the zodiac killer ,thats bizzare even for the TGD Perhaps Z contacted TGD and requested they do that , TGD were not going to the police about it ... or anything else really
I see the symbol unique to letter mailed to the police a month after Cheri's death to be very much like other letters in the wiccan alphabet with the tiny M ....the 1st album of TGD titled - Witchcraft
Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 21, 2016 11:42:31 GMT -8
Some very interesting finds,Davb,and clearly some painstaking research [?].Are you a ''Dead Head'' ? [!].
As a general observation on Jerry Garcia's dedication,perhaps it was more of a prayer,for Zodiac [?].
From venues and dates listed, The ''Dead'' must have felt ''The Indian Sign'' was on them [?].One can forget the times,again,with so many individuals in the public eye,threatened.
I had no idea that Cheri Jo's boyfriend,was from San Francisco.Cheri Jo Bates represents an enigma,really.Technically,she is not a confirmed victim,and yet receives as much,if more attention,than the ''confirmed'' [?].Certainly,much more than the ''abduction'' of Kathleen Johns.Although Zodiac took the rap for Miss Johns,via letter,there is a general feeling that he felt forced to,out of bravado [?].If Zodiac had said nothing,it could have been construed as him ''accepting'' the inferences that he no longer had a ruthless streak [?].
Personally,I believe that all missives pertaining to Miss Bates,including Desk Top Poem,are the work of Zodiac.But her actual murder,is another matter.The Jury is out,on that one.As for Miss Johns,it doesn't sit well,with me.Something akin to UFO sightings,about that one [?].Perhaps the cops ''bigged it up'',to see what Zodiac's reaction would be [?].
Interesting,also,the alphabetic letters and Witchcraft album.
That popmatters article also says Garcia had dreams /nightmares that he would drive up to a stoplight and the zodiac would be next to him. I could not find out which concert Jerry dedicated to him . I can't see it being a joke Cheri's boyfriend was a student at SF State Univ.
also odd was that a band -Country Joe and the Fish- played with TGD on 12/20/68 & on Sept 27/69
And most likely on the Summer of Love Country Joe sang his hit vietnam song ( I don't give a dam,next stop is Vietnam) It was maybe the hit song of all the songs sang at the concerts , it woke every one up too.
but only appeared with them TGD in 67 and maybe 70 or 71 again
one site stated country Joe was at 8/8/69 at the Paradise valley BC Canada concert
some zodiac website members stated they thought Robert hunter of The G dead lived at or nearly at Washington & Maple SF for a time . I strongly believe Cheri and Johns were attacked by a zodiac , (IMO more than 1 guy) one of the 1st real suspects was a park ranger at Yosemite national park other employees called police after this man who ressembled the napa Z closely & was sneaking on to trails & up to hikers at the park and becoming very angered easily ,acting odd around the time of the killings /attacks there is a FBI file on this, his name redacted ...his handwriting did not match
that hiway that Kathleen was on 130 ? is the best shot into and back from SF
Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 21, 2016 14:02:32 GMT -8
Yes,I can see that Garcia was probably genuine,in his remarks.Perhaps a bit ''churlish'' that he had a reputation for smoking more Ganja,than anyone apart from Bob Marley [!].
Indeed,with respect to Cheri Jo Bates - I am more persuaded,than not,that she was murdered by Zodiac.But,for some reason,The Riverside Police have never been convinced of this [?].Perhaps,there are no conclusive ''forensics'',that persuade them [?].
Yes,the Johns abduction is a possible Zodiac crime.And,of course,it is the case that Law Enforcement claim this.But,the only ''telling'' evidence,that the public have been privy to,is that Miss Johns ''almost fainted'',when she recognized the ''wanted'' poster of Zodiac.An artist's impression [!].Not even a photofit [?].
''That'' artists impression has got a lot to answer for [!].I think that the only facial characteristics of Zodiac,for which we can be reasonably confident,is that he had ''dark'' natural hair,a wide and rounded face,purse lips,and was a regular wearer of spectacles.The artist's impression is only retained,to ''put a face to a name''.It misleads,in that it makes little or no width,for the almost certain fact that Zodiac assumed ''chameleon'' qualities.
Zodiac made up quite a letter,when he realized that the John's abduction was being pinned on him.He even reverted to being ''industrious'',with his famous ''my name is ---'' cipher.Reading that letter,gives away clues that he was desperate to redress the balance of ''plausibility'',again.Zodiac was prepared to take ''the rap'',provided the authorities would continue to take him seriously.
A sign,I believe also,that he was a younger man,than most people might believe [?].The whole ''Buttons'' episode lends credence to this also.In the end,there was an almost ''please,you must wear Zodiac buttons'',about him,indicating immaturity and a ''youthful'' neediness to be revered [?].
Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 21, 2016 23:44:06 GMT -8
....while I think about it,here's a theory on the Kathleen Johns abduction :
Johns and an unknown married man,both in unhappy relationships,are developing some kind of ''relationship'' of their own.Opportunities to meet are difficult,particularly with Miss Johns having responsibility of a baby child.
They seize the chance of a rendez-vous,and meet in an agreed remote location,with Miss Johns having to bring her child,with her.
Miss Johns' car breaks down,and her ''lover'' is unable to fix it.They both realize that the problem with her car,will be their undoing,with both partners inevitably finding out,and all the gossip and shame that may ensue.
So,the lover of Miss Johns,sets fire to it,and it is agreed that Miss Johns will ''wait to be rescued''.
The Police found the baby of Miss Johns in a ditch,unharmed.Miss Johns had claimed that she was so desperate to escape ''Zodiac'',that she threw the baby out first,then made her escape.
What !!!!....how many mothers would dream of such a thing ? The authorities normally would not be so sympathetic to those actions,regardless of her ''desperation''.
I believe that the police were far from convinced about the whole episode,but Miss Johns' ''recognition'' of the Zodiac image presented an ''opportunity'',and Miss Johns was not going to back down,from her story.She and her lover may never have met again,both so spooked by the whole ordeal [?].
An inevitable consequence of a police decision,was that they got Zodiac to reply.....and like the Paul Stine murder,a few more ''porky pies'' emerged from Zodiac.
If the case of The Zodiac Killer,is ever solved,I would be confident that he will never be charged for the abduction of Kathleen Johns.
Whether the police will ever admit to their decision,is another matter [!].
Heck no i'm not a or ever was a deadhead.... but overall I like their songs the famous ones Casey Jones , Strange Trip ,others too The G Dead had a following that were kind of scary though and very loyal to the band ,one thing that proves this is the Dead had the 10pm Sat nite time slot in their contract , it is said that if a band did not get off the stage at a time that gave the G Dead enough time to set up ,the band members simply invited 15 or so very capable fans of theirs ,to toss the other bands equipment off the stage and this was done many times and this included people not just their instruments . there is some video of this I saw once .
i will check but tGD played 2weeks earlier in SF and think it was @sfstate univ too like they were invited back and a senior member @another Z site said Cheri had gone weeks earlier to see her boyfriend too this other member said that her boyfriend was going to propose marriage the last time she went to see him. Cheri was going to college to be a sterwardess ( her dream job).... so getting married would not work for that ,was she pregnant? or thought she was or told him to see how he reacted. ( girls do that sometimes )
Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 22, 2016 11:01:28 GMT -8
It is interesting to hear ''snippets'' of information,such as you have mentioned.The dealings that I have had with the police,on murder inquiries can produce a few surprises.One of them is that they really do want to hear ''the gossip'' [!].An ''overall'' picture,then they can make up their own minds [?].
Funny how Cheri ''wanted'' to be a stewardess - a waitress in the sky [?] - another sign of those times.
From what I have read,her autopsy revealed no pregnancy.Same goes for Cecelia Shepard.I believe it is standard procedure,to check,with young women murdered.Something the press always seem to be interested in.
There is an overall perception that The Grateful Dead were a bit eccentric [?].Also,their loyal fans [?].I hadn't realized an,almost,anti-social aspect to them [?].I was a fan of most of the music played at Woodstock,not least Country Joe.And of course,the ''spellbinding'' Joe Cocker - blowing everyone away,in broad daylight [!].
Strange that Grateful Dead were ''there'',but never emerged on film.Apparently,they played such an awful set,that the producers wouldn't allow footage in the final cut.A bit more ''off their heads'',than others [?].
I thought maybe they omitted the pregnancy on the report as that would be really insult to injury ,they have done that before ,2 reports one for the press .
Some of those TGDead concert listing don't show them at Woodstock ( I will check again ) but I thought they did too . many groups sucked there I have read , as the sound system was kind of a joke for the size of the crowd, bad reveb too , hard to play well when you cannot hear other band members played notes ( like the Beatles ) and it rained for two days groups thought they might get electrocuted on stage . yes the dead heads were not loved by other concert goers for sure , they deadheads would mostly ignore other bands music disrupting the show for non deadheads many were broke and tried to sneak in or listen out side the venue causing problems .
2 W coast posters at the other Z site said they thought Robert hunter lived at Wash & Maple. 1 said he remembered him living in the mansion at that corner , right where Zodiac would have killed Stine , if they stopped at Maple. I'll try to search into that as it seems huge if he did .... could be RH from the desk top was Robert Hunter of TGD
Also TGD played the Berryessa Bowl in 67 and Country Joe was there ...i'll check the dates
Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 23, 2016 15:11:13 GMT -8
Yes,these autopsies of the victims,that are available,pertain specifically,to injuries sustained,and official cause of death.One presumes that information,such as pregnancy,are part of medical files,with permission given,to answer further questions from the media [?].
Zodiac enthusiasts often rue the restrictions placed on certain information [....I know that I do...].But really,there has probably been more information released on this case,than any other.No doubt,about fifty years unsolved,might have something to do with it [?].
It is interesting to hear about the TGD member Robert Hunter.Clearly,tongues wagging on the basis of his RH initials,plus residency.You are probably aware of a ''Robert H.''from San Francisco [?].The first caller to The Vallejo Police,following the SF Chronicle's publishing of Don Harden's Z408 solution.
On film,the Woodstock sound system ''seemed'' OK - but one would have had to have been there - unexpected huge turnout,of course.I wonder what those,furthest away from main stage,could actually hear [?].
Good to look back on those times - the West Coast scene,in particular,was so exciting - great poster artwork,also [?].
Cheri was aiming very high with stewardess back then , not many women's top jobs back then unless a proffesor , Dr. -OB-Gyn mostly or just happened to be a great sales person plus got lucky . The reason to try for a stewardess was to meet & marry a top attorney , investment banker , famous celebs or a rich man which could change her life overnight . and it was a way to see the interesting places of the world , free airfare for a vacation too. but not for long , you could not be married if starting , only a few made the cut past mid /late twenties . I had a smoking hot cousin that tried and failed twice to get on third time she got it , Cheri was sexy cute in that last pic of here short dress , sure sounds like she was dumping her boyfriend and he knew it .
Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 27, 2016 13:15:33 GMT -8
Yes Davb,commercial air travel was considered glamorous,in those days,and a stewardess was seen as a career of aspiration.Cheri Jo Bates was indeed,a very attractive young woman.
I have not seen a name given for the boyfriend of Miss Bates.I wonder if he remains,to this day,a suspect in her murder [?].
I believe that The Riverside Police had had their eyes on a suspect for many years.Then,in 1998,they managed to procure a DNA sample - which turned out to be a negative match.Even the ''professionals'' are known to ''put all their eggs in one basket'',and there was certain criticism regarding a perception that the police had not invested more time,looking further afield.It could have been ''The Boyfriend'' [?].
I have read that [then] ''Zodiac'' Handwriting expert Sherwood Morrill,was quite prepared to officially authenticate the missives and Desk Top Poem,associated with the Cheri Jo Bates murder.But The Riverside Police wouldn't,and never have,''bought'' the notion.
Strange how ''authentication'' can come down to ''politics'',between police forces [?].
Rubislaw32: Secret Pa William Grant for the murders he had committed, and likely now that he had at least claimed for Jane Doe 59 (Reet) in Los Angeles - but suppressed by the FBI. Moreover, he had no guns left. Beyond a blades man, he would have to become a bomber.
Oct 1, 2023 9:11:47 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: There were a handful of reasons the Zodiac was at his lowest ebb, as apparently inferred in his letter to Belli of December 20th 1969. One year on from his first attack at Lake Herman Road, the Zodiac seemed no closer to successfully fitting up his...
Oct 1, 2023 8:58:57 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: ...in his letter sent to Melvin Belli. With the murder of gay lamp designer Robert Salem covered by the SF Chronicle in April 1970, it presented a chance to provoke Z into turning up figuratively again. An immediate response from Z resulted - he was back.
Oct 1, 2023 8:03:29 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: And lo and behold, back to basics and something case-pertinent: The writings of William Heirens, The Lipstick Killer, above a lamp: ''For heavens sake, catch me before I kill more - I cannot control myself.''. These words clearly influencing the Zodiac,...
Oct 1, 2023 7:52:37 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Voigt's site is a sad load of ''zodiacfiller.tom ''. Travel to its peripheries, and you might find an interesting topic debated by sensible contributors. But up front, it's a house of madness furnished by someone now blacklisted by all of law enforcement.
Oct 1, 2023 7:09:31 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Tom: ''I have my site of dreams; my Gyke candidate & imaginary friends. Who needs Zodiac ?'. Ms Betts: ''I have never known Tom to make up a lie. I have my Honcho & his boys, and my story & the tears that I cry.''. Tom: ''I have no reason to doubt Sandy.''
Oct 1, 2023 6:21:19 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Voigt's glove puppet Uncle Sporkums is known for his innocuousness. This in contrast to Sporkum's flashing avatar, which keeps anyone with photophobia sensitivities away from his site. You're never alone with a Strand ? For Tom - it's an imaginary friend.
Oct 1, 2023 1:13:07 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Voigt's pettax not only used as an attack dog on Morf. He confuses regular members, also: ''There isn't any need to come up with a suspect. Becoming famous for not solving the case, unless rock solid nuke proof.''. Bolt: ''Didn't follow a word of that.''.
Oct 1, 2023 0:33:17 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Did you see the funny side of that one, ''Fibbers'' ? Martinez, and across the Carquinez Strait actually. Yes, Smack & Coke - Brown & White Sugar. Z probably imagined he would alert a small army of The FIB to descend on an entirely innocent sugar refinery.
Sept 30, 2023 9:41:35 GMT -8
Rub--law32: But maybe ?: Feb 6th 1980, to FBI Director Webster from a CA address: ''I am very pleased with your ABSCAM investigation. I would like to remind you that organized crime smuggles 90% of its drugs as raw & processed sugar thru the C&H Sugar Co., Benicia.''.
Sept 30, 2023 6:59:41 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: SF Examiner, August 4th 1969: ''When the girls failed to return home by 6:30 pm, Deborah's father Glen Furlong called police.''. Interestingly perhaps, two dates appear assigned to Vallejo on Bryan's door. There is no record of Z ever mentioning Benicia.
Sept 30, 2023 6:09:08 GMT -8
Rub--law32: Z's Dripping Pen card of Nov 8th 1969 claimed for 7 murders, and included the month of August (Aug). This accounts for the false claim of girls Snoozy & Furlong. Why not written on Bryan's car door ? It was:''6.30'' - time girls should have been home by.
Sept 30, 2023 5:46:01 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: An inference: Emma Caldwell (April 5th 2005, Glasgow) has been a spearheading murder victim, as early as Jan 2015. And it was her reinvestigation starting May 2015, which precipitated a move on Jane Doe 59 (Reet Jurvetson), the following month - June 2015.
Sept 30, 2023 3:57:19 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Update: If the case that San Jose PD received a Stine shirt swatch with the Nov 21st 1969 letter. And, given that LAPD acted on Jane Doe 59 in June 2015, then one realistic conclusion: The Zodiac is suspected of murdering Reet Jurvetson, Nov 14th 1969, LA.
Sept 30, 2023 3:18:27 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: You see CA DOJ, these are the sorts of concerns the public might have about your leadership. Granted you appear to have a special relationship with SFPD. But, why did you not inform South Lake Tahoe, Vallejo & Riverside PD's that FBI were case-excluded ?
Sept 30, 2023 2:21:56 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: The FBI: Intelligence Processors of The Zodiac Killer case, in the service of case custodians CA DOJ, 1969 - 2015. Yes, lying FBI - it came to an end. NO LONGER REQUIRED, on account of your Director James Comey's case conduct. Take note, all media outlets.
Sept 30, 2023 1:32:28 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Indeed, the focus will swing from who this man was, to why CA DOJ never solved it. Naturally, CA DOJ should desire to deliver Zodiac justice, but their actual abilities and case leadership will come into question, for performance of FBI alone - shambolic.
Sept 29, 2023 23:52:59 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: One has to wonder where the CA DOJ's head is ? In the sand ? No doubt they have weathered storms before, but the Zodiac case is the slow-burning mother of them all. Unsolved officially, it will never leave; soon to represent no hope left and only ridicule.
Sept 29, 2023 23:06:04 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Sometime never, CA DOJ ? It's still your case and you still remain silent. What's the problem ? The cat got your tongue ? All the public have is a deciphered postscript from May 2022 - a rebuke to FBI's Dan Olson, who still behaves as a criminal. Speak up.
Sept 29, 2023 16:55:05 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: As Duane Davis is charged with the murder of Tupac Shakur, Las Vegas PD's sheriff becomes emotional when pointing out that Shakur's family have waited 27 years for justice. Double those 27 years ? 54 years, and still no Zodiac justice. A disgrace, CA DOJ.
Sept 29, 2023 16:28:41 GMT -8