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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 16, 2017 13:44:38 GMT -8
Zodiac link between Desktop poem and Halloween Card [?]. --------------------------------------------------------
In the final line of the Desktop poem,the author writes :''Just wait till next time.''
Perhaps,more than a suggestion of plagiarism,of the work of Charles Schultz,and his comic strip cartoons,''Peanuts'' [?].
''Snoopy'',the dog was well known for his imaginary ''dogfights'',with German Air Ace,The Red Baron.In one of the cartoons,Snoopy is sitting atop his dog kennel,muttering : ''Just wait til' next time,Red Baron !''.
In Schultz's work,there were regular characters,and some that came and went,occasionally.One such was the ''Great Pumpkin''.Making its first appearance in 1959,the Great Pumpkin was given a starring role,in the 1966 Television Special,''It's the Great Pumpkin,Charlie Brown.''.
Every year,a small boy,''Linus'',sits in a pumpkin patch,on Halloween night,waiting for the Great Pumpkin to appear.Linus confuses Halloween with Christmas,and even suggests to his friends,that they ''go out and sing pumpkin songs''.To Linus,the Great Pumpkin is ''Santa Claus''.
It appears likely that the pumpkin on the Halloween Card to Paul Avery,was the ''Great Pumpkin''.It appears to be,even more likely that the author of the line''Just wait till next time.'',plagiarised this from the 1966 published book,''Snoopy and Red Baron''.
If one is Zodiac [confirmed],then both Zodiac [?].
In addition,''The Red Baron'' is now on ''the radar''.Manfred von Richthofen was a legitimised serial killer,accounting for 80 enemy aircraft.He died a hero.
Now perhaps,an addition to Zodiac's growing list of real heroes...alongside Frederick The Great,Robert E.Lee,Grouch Marx and Herb Caen [?].
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 24, 2017 14:19:42 GMT -8
'' r h '' - The Desktop signature [?]. -----------------------------------------
Recently,creator of the ''zodiac ciphers'' site,Richard Grinell,had revived the topic of the ''r h'' signature,left at the bottom of the Desktop Poem.An inscription of words,believed by Documents Examiner,Sherwood Morrill,to be the work of The Zodiac Killer.
Coincidentally,new member of ZKM,''Crow'',has just offered up the initials to plainclothes policeman,Richard Hoffman,as a solution to the ''r h'' initials.
Grinell,himself,is inclined to believe that ''r h'' might stand for ''riverside halloween'',given the location of the Riverside College library,and possible associations to Halloween,with both the murder of Cheri Jo Bates,and case of The Zodiac Killer,in general.
Many suggestions have been put forward,in the past,with ''red herring'' possibly the most popular choice.
There is a general feeling,among the majority of Zodiac enthusiasts,that Zodiac,if indeed the scribe,would be unlikely to sign off the poem with his actual name.
Perhaps,''r h'' was left as an afterthought [?].Just to confuse interested observers [?].
Perhaps,something non-specific,like ''right hand'',or ''red head'' [?].
Perhaps,even,that ''r h'' holds associations to the last line of the poem : ''Just wait till next time.'' [?].
Since it appears likely that ''Just wait till next time.'' is a ''steal'' from the work of Charles Schultz,then it may be the case that the ''Red Baron'' actually plays a role [?].
''Just wait til' next time,Red Baron'' translates to : ''Just wait til' next time,Richthofen''.
Manfred von Richthofen's surname is pronounced : ''Richt-hofen''.Hence,a solution to ''r h'' [?].
For want of a better anonymous signature,or indeed,any signing off at all,Zodiac may have merely extended his plagiarised line from Schultz,to its fullness [?].
''Just wait till next time. r h ''.....from Schultz's : ''Just wait till next time, '' r h ''.''.
Yes, ''The Red Baron'' may be a ''left field'' choice from The Zodiac Killer [!].
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Post by GhostVoice on Jul 4, 2021 1:27:47 GMT -8
[/font] It has been 50 years since Cheri Jo Bates was murdered and there is still hope that the crime can be solved. The Riverside Police Department confirmed that the case is still active and new scientific analysis of the evidence will be done. I hope that it will be possible to find out whether or not the DNA evidence from the Cheri Jo Bates crime scene matches the DNA evidence from the Zodiac killer. [/quote] I called the Riverside Police Department. They will not accept DNA evidence for a Zodiac suspect accepted by San Francisco because Riverside is convinced Zodiac did NOT kill Cheri Jo.
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Post by GhostVoice on Jul 4, 2021 1:28:07 GMT -8
[/font] It has been 50 years since Cheri Jo Bates was murdered and there is still hope that the crime can be solved. The Riverside Police Department confirmed that the case is still active and new scientific analysis of the evidence will be done. I hope that it will be possible to find out whether or not the DNA evidence from the Cheri Jo Bates crime scene matches the DNA evidence from the Zodiac killer. [/quote] There's a glitch on the site. It doubled my post and won't let me delete it.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Jul 4, 2021 3:42:14 GMT -8
Interesting subject matter to bring up, GhostVoice.
Historically, what is known is, that Riverside P.D. were in touch with the Napa sheriff's office, in October 1969, with respect to similarities noted between events at Lake Berryessa and the murder of Cheri Jo Bates. This included references to murder-related Bates correspondences.
At that juncture, it appears that Napa shared this information of perceived similarities with their Bay area Police Department colleagues, but failed to inform the FBI or CA DOJ. The FBI and CA DOJ did not find out about the murder-related Bates correspondences, until November 1970 - over one year later after Napa and Riverside's initial contact.
However, in that interim period, the SFPD had already made contact with Riverside P.D. and arrangements took place for fingerprint evidence garnered from Paul Stine's taxi cab to be compared to fingerprint evidence left at the crime scene of Cheri Jo Bates. One can only presume that these comparisons proved a negative match - otherwise more on the matter would undoubtedly have emerged.
Documentation of the SFPD's contact and arrangements with Riverside, with respect to fingerprint comparisons was unearthed and shown, by the well-known Zodiac contributor, Drew Beeson .
It is possible that a DNA match might me found, in future, between the Zodiac Killer and the perpetrator of Cheri Jo Bates. but given that fingerprint comparisons are unlikely to have produced positive results then, the DNA scenario looks remote, at best.
When the FBI eventually acquired custody of the murder-related Bates correspondences, there are indications within the pages of the FBI's Zodiac Killer Files, that they, the FBI, worked on these correspondences, and for the next 8 years. A likelihood then, that the FBI had found the correspondences to be from the hand of the Zodiac - just as Documents Examiner Sherwood Morrill had claimed, in November 1970.
So, as things stand at present, there are persuasions ( though not guarantees ) that the Zodiac was responsible for the Bates correspondences, but not the actual murder of Cheri Jo Bates.
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Post by GhostVoice on Jul 21, 2021 15:57:42 GMT -8
An excellent Press Enterprise article materializing,Ricardo,and salient points made by you. It was good that a few website community members made the journey,to mark the tragic death of Cheri Jo Bates.That there is human interest in evidence,keeps the torch for justice,alive,so to speak.And I am sure that this does not go unnoticed,by Law Enforcement,themselves. One senses that The Riverside Police are beginning to ''relent'' a little,in their perceived hold over jurisdiction,in the case of Miss Bates.Perhaps more opportunities have emerged,recently,and that they no longer see Federal Law Enforcement,as some sort of threat to their ''independence'',on this case [?]. Forensic material from the case of The Zodiac Killer,could be that which allows a breakthrough in her case [?].Some may be unaware that hair samples were found in certain envelopes,of correspondences from Zodiac...as well as gleaned fingerprints,palm prints and,one assumes,material for DNA analysis. Yes,this possible military connection,has forever ''followed'' Zodiac's case.It may well yet prove accurate.Personally,I believe that Zodiac was a ''military copycat'',and procured many items,through mail order and military surplus stores.It may prove to be the case that being turned down by the military,contributed to his ''anti-establishment'',as well as extreme ''anti-social'' behavior [?]. One would have thought that,had Zodiac been in the military ''proper'',he would have been easier to trace [?]. Perhaps Zodiac,as an embittered ''reject'',vowed to become a ''one man army''. NO, unfortunately Riverside PD is NOT budging on their refusal to consider Z as a suspect in Cheri Jo's murder. I contacted them about it before the lockdown.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Jul 21, 2021 16:16:16 GMT -8
Yes, I am aware of that. As you might note by my post - it is almost five years old and, much water can pass under the bridge, in five years, on a criminal case and associated criminal cases.
The last that was heard from Riverside P.D., that appeared on the internet was accusations that an amateur investigator called Phil Sins was responsible for the '' slow boat to China '' letter, leading Paul Avery to find out about the Bates murder-related correspondences, in November 1970.
Phil Sins emphatically denied that he was responsible and claimed that he only ever contacted Paul Avery, by telephone.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 3, 2021 2:45:19 GMT -8
Simply to register, at this time, that reports emanating from Riverside P.D., suggest that the three spartan handwritten letters from April 1967, including one intended for Joseph Bates, are now believed to have been faked by a man from San Bernardino, admitting to the hoax - then, in 1967, a confused teenager.
This report is not believed to have included the typed Confession Letter ; The Patricia Hauz Note ; nor the Desk Top Poem . With the Desk Top Poem , beyond reasonable doubt, having been written '' before '' the murder of Cheri Jo Bates.
Further news concerns an anonymous sponsor offering $50,000 to any agency or person, proving the identity of Cheri Jo Bates' perpetrator before January 31st 2022 ( six months away ).
Riverside P.D. suggest further that they are confident of holding a DNA profile of the perpetrator of Cheri Jo Bates.
It is documented that fingerprints from the crime scene of Presidio Heights Zodiac victim Paul Stine ( October 1969 ) and fingerprints from the crime scene of Cheri Jo Bates ( October 1966 ) were compared, in 1970..... but, with a ( presumably ) negative outcome.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 3, 2021 3:57:57 GMT -8
The only comment I feel inclined to make, at this early stage of Riverside P.D.'s claims, is to merely state facts :
The three spartan handwritten letters from April 1967 and, sent six months after the Cheri Jo Bates murder, are in the custody of the FBI. This is the case also, with the typed Confession Letter with replications, and the Patricia Hauz Note. And, the Desk Top Poem. The FBI's involvement in the Zodiac Killer case is, as in the service of the California State Department of Justice - the Zodiac Killer case's legal custodians. In the chain-of-command, the CA DOJ are only answerable to the U.S. DOJ.
Following the murder of Cheri Jo Bates, the Riverside P.D. handed apparent murder-related correspondences over to the U.S.Postal Services Fraud Department where, the correspondences resided until November 1970. In November 1970,the expose by Paul Avery and the San Francisco Chronicle to the correspondences' existence, also made apparent that although Bay area P.D.'s had been aware of their existence, since October 1969, the CA DOJ and FBI had failed to be informed of them, in those intervening 13 months, up to November 1970.
As a result, the CA DOJ held a prompt law enforcement summit, in order to iron out perceived communication problems having arisen in the Zodiac Killer case.
Decisions made at the law enforcement summit, included awarding custody of the Bates murder-related correspondences to the FBI. And, following the FBI's retrieval of these correspondences from the U.S.Postal Services Fraud Department, it is the FBI who have held the correspondences, ever since. With the FBI's custody of them, at the behest of, and in the service of the CA DOJ.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 3, 2021 15:44:42 GMT -8
Based on statements made at Riverside P.D.'s website, the following is concluded :
A so far unnamed man who, in 2016 , posted a letter from San Bernardino ( about 12 miles north-east of Riverside ), claiming to be the author of the three handwritten letters ( including one to Cheri Jo's father Joseph ), in April 1967 , has now been proven to have written the 2016 letter of claim and remorse for the April 1967 letters.
Although investigators have also satisfied themselves that the author of the 2016 letter is not responsible for either the murder of Cheri Jo Bates or confirmed Zodiac murders, THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS PROOF THAT THE 2016 LETTER WRITER WAS ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR THE APRIL 1967 HANDWRITTEN LETTERS.
The confirmed author of the 2016 letter has been interviewed and has submitted his DNA. And, as I have previously alluded to, the FBI are in physical possession of the three April 1967 letters, for which they hold custody in the service of the CA DOJ.
So...to date, only the CA DOJ and FBI '' might '' know if the author of the 2016 letter is the same person who authored the April 1967 letters.
The author of the three 1967 letters might be someone else - and still could be the man who became the Zodiac.
Unless the CA DOJ or FBI are willing to speak up on this matter, in the public domain, then the public will remain in the dark.
Comment : Not actually a whole lot forthcoming, apart from an apparent move to cast some doubt on Zodiac authenticity of the April 1967 letters which, have yet to receive official ratification of Zodiac authenticity, anyway. It certainly looks as if Riverside P.D. desire to make it clear that the Zodiac was not responsible for the murder of Cheri Jo Bates and, that they continue to gather enough evidence on the person they do believe was responsible, in order to persuade public prosecutors to attempt a conviction.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 4, 2021 3:47:51 GMT -8
Readers at this site who hold further interest might like to examine for themselves what, exactly, Riverside P.D. have stated at their official website.
It does seem that Riverside P.D. are not overly happy with how legal custodians of the Cheri Jo Bates case, the CA DOJ, are viewing future prospects of a conviction. And, Riverside P.D. who, are convinced that they know the identity of Cheri Jo's perpetrator, are concerned that justice will never be delivered.
By stating such aspects to the case, as a recent example of an unnamed man who claims to have hoaxed the April 1967 murder-related letters, Riverside are illustrating that Bates case outsiders, such as the FBI are still investigating suspects for Cheri Jo's murder - when Riverside P.D. are convinced that her perpetrator is already identified by them, with simply a case of satisfying the CA DOJ, that they have enough evidence that will stand up in a court of law.
What certainly seems to be the case is, that Riverside P.D. by making public statements, are '' whistleblowing '' on their senior law enforcement partners, the CA DOJ, for the unsatisfactory way that they, Riverside P.D., feel that they are isolated and being left to be portrayed as simply in denial of any Zodiac involvement, in the Cheri Jo Bates case.
Of interest to the public is, I would suggest, that Riverside P.D. are convinced that Cheri Jo Bates' perpetrator is still alive and, could be prosecuted if the CA DOJ saw fit.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 6, 2021 16:29:00 GMT -8
Indeed - most certainly a spat gong on over investigating jurisdiction definition, in the Cheri Jo Bates murder case - between the Riverside P.D. and legal custodian's, the CA DOJ.
Cheri Jo Bates was murdered on October 30th 1966, in the geographic jurisdiction of Riverside. Just because this crime would normally fall to the Riverside P.D. to investigate the murder, doesn't mean that it is a given that they would be allowed to do so, and would have been granted this investigating jurisdiction by the CA DOJ.
Fast-forward to November 1970 and the expose on the Bates murder-related correspondences having found to have been, not only suspected as coming from the hand of the Zodiac Killer, but their very existence being '' news '' to the CA DOJ and FBI - left out of a communications loop, for at least 13 months.
Despite the Riverside P.D. adjudged to have been unwise to have never even considered an agency beyond the U.S. Postal Services Fraud Department, with whom to have lodged all related correspondences, in the first place , the CA DOJ decided that Riverside P.D. should continue to hold investigating jurisdiction in the Cheri Jo Bates case...with the FBI confined to any of their own investigations, from '' behind a desk '' - albeit now awarded custody of the Bates correspondences (...and all the potential forensics that those correspondences might include....).
Fast-forward to recent times, and it emerges that it is the L.A. division of the FBI who appears to have investigated this potential hoaxer of the three April 1967 handwritten letters.
So, understandably perhaps, the Riverside P.D. as having been officially awarded investigating jurisdiction on the Cheri Jo Bates case, by the CA DOJ, feel side-lined with the FBI allowed an investigating undertaking, by the CA DOJ, which did not include the Riverside P.D. .
Hence, the '' whistleblowing '' by the Riverside P.D. .
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 6, 2021 17:32:33 GMT -8
'' What goes around, comes around '' ?
Perhaps the Riverside P.D. might finally reflected on decision-making all those years ago when, they, off their own bat, elected to lodge '' hoaxed or otherwise '' murder-related correspondences with the U.S. Postal Services Fraud Department, seemingly never even considering to inform, nor asking advice from the CA DOJ ?
Historians will no doubt conclude that, if the Riverside P.D. had gone through correct procedures over the correspondences in 1966 and 1967, then the CA DOJ would have advised the Riverside P.D. to hand the correspondences over to the FBI who, would have been seen as the experts in this field.
The fact that the Riverside P.D. did not go through , at least perceived, correct procedures over the correspondences, certainly raises questions over the Riverside P.D.'s true intentions, at that time. Some might argue that it was a deliberate decision made by the Riverside P.D. - not desiring nor wishing to '' invite '' any association with an organization, such as the FBI who, were gaining a reputation for spreading fear and distrust with the knowledge, in certain quarters, of their covert actions, in the fight against Black Extremism, in particular.
Some might conclude that the Riverside P.D. '' feathered their own bed '' for the future of the Bates case, gambling that they, the Riverside P.D. , would solve the case swiftly.
Solving the Bates case swiftly, sadly didn't come about and, they may have missed an opportunity to do so, had they been supported by a large resourced agency with diverse skillset, such as the FBI - despite the FBI's then general unpopularity.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 8, 2021 4:42:51 GMT -8
In the last few days, followers of the Zodiac case have expressed the seeming ambiguity in the way Riverside P.D. have conveyed their wording, over perceived developments in the Cheri Jo case.
What is stated is the fact that the Los Angeles division of the FBI became involved in investigations pertaining to the person who is known to have mailed a letter from 2016, owning up ( truthfully or otherwise ) to having hoaxed the three April 1967 handwritten letters.
This really comes down to whether the person who claims to have mailed the three letters, now known to the FBI and CA DOJ at least, was complicit in any way, with respect to the actual murder of Cheri Jo Bates.
Over the intervening years, any documented evidence or inferred evidence, points to the Zodiac NOT being the actual perpetrator - but doubt lingers as to the Zodiac's potential complicity in the murder of Cheri Jo Bates, given the possibility/probability of the Zodiac being responsible for at least some of the murder-related correspondences, emerging in the wake of her death.
So, the references to the investigations into the known author of the 2016 letter, suggest that the FBI and CA DOJ want to be sure that this ( hoaxing ? ) person was not complicit in the actual murder of Ms.Bates.
And...Riverside P.D. just don't like the notion that '' inaccuracies '' with respect to a Zodiac link to the murder of Ms.Bates might surface - putting undue stress on them, the Riverside P.D., into feeling forced to refute an association between the Zodiac and actual murder committed, in their geographic jurisdiction - let alone cast doubt on an official remit to investigate which, the CA DOJ may have awarded them in the past. Riverside P.D. have always wished to make it clear that they do not believe that the Zodiac murdered Cheri Jo and, have not been inclined to move from their position at any time.
It certainly seems as if Riverside P.D. are not happy with the way they have been treated by the CA DOJ, recently.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 9, 2021 18:44:56 GMT -8
Worth another look ( ? ), in light of the three April 1967 letters in the spotlight again :
A handwritten letter to Joseph Kennedy Snr. from an anonymous source, in the wake of the assassination of Bobby Kennedy. Made available by secret services, July 2nd 1968 :
''........You thought you could buy the presidency - and did once. America doesn't like or want dynasties. Jack had to die, Bobby had to die, Ted has to die.''
Refer : Joseph Kennedy Snr. FBI File 1, Page 27.
From April 30th 1967 , Bates murder-related correspondences to Joseph Bates, Riverside Press Enterprise and Riverside P.D. :
'' Bates had to die. There will be more.''
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