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Post by Rubislaw32 on May 10, 2018 0:41:58 GMT -8
Some fascinating and informative information given,Mike.Since your letter has been made available,on this site,then hope you don't mind me picking up on it.
The recent claim that the technique of extracting DNA successfully,after a postage stamp's removal from an envelope,being a new innovation....just did not ring true.
In fact,I would venture that very little of what Detective Poyser,of the Vallejo Police,did cut the mustard on credulity [?].
We are,apparently,to hear news of results of those two envelopes,''sometime this summer''.And,Detective Poyser was unable to inform the media of the Lab,in question,that would undertake,this supposed groundbreaking work.
The conundrum seems to actually be about protocol.
The California State Department of Justice hold legal ownership of the case of the Zodiac Killer.Police forces,like the Vallejo Police Department,will pass any pertinent information gleaned,on to the CA DOJ...who then make decisions over viability of public prosecution,and thereby delivering justice to the people.
In an efficient,secure and well operated case,such as the case of the Zodiac Killer,all original correspondences should be under lock and key,in either Sacramento or Washington D.C.Those correspondences that we categorise as both ''confirmed'' and ''unconfirmed'' are supposed to be held,by the F.B.I.,under the title ''Archive Extortion'',and made available to the CA DOJ,on request.
The F.B.I.,indeed,exist in service of the CA DOJ's needs.This includes any decision the CA DOJ comes to,with respect to proposals about the correspondences.A presumed undertaking,such the one that Detective Poyser of the Vallejo Police intimates,would normally be dealt with at Quantico,under the F.B.I.'s watchful eye,on behalf of the CA DOJ.
In addition,Federal support to the case of the Zodiac Killer is also given by NCIS Washington,who hold all or any military records,pertaining to historical Zodiac suspects and acknowledged persons of interest.Again,available to the CA DOJ,on request.
It would not be a surprise to anyone if the Vallejo Police hold quality copies of confirmed Zodiac correspondences.And copies of some ''unconfirmed'' correspondences,also.The Vallejo Police may,in addition,have been granted permission to keep original correspondences,rejected by the F.B.I.,as not even worthy for consideration as a ''possible''.It is the F.B.I.,we should remember,who are the arbitrators on extortion,in this case.
But for the Vallejo Police to infer that they hold three original letters,and two original envelopes ? Pull the ''other one'',it has bells on [!].
This recent ''declaration'' by Detective Poyser,I would suggest,is a ruse.Bay Area police forces have voiced their concern,to the CA DOJ,of being inundated with requests and inquiries on the Zodiac Killer case,in light of recent developments in the EAR/GSK case.
Hence,the CA DOJ have requested of the Vallejo Police,that they give the public something to keep them content that the Zodiac case has not been forgotten.
''Something''also,that stops people having a justifiable reason,to bother the cops.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Jun 9, 2018 10:48:16 GMT -8
The news of recent developments,in the case of The Zodiac Killer,as it as unfolded --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacramento Bee May 2nd 2018
''Detective Poyser said the envelopes had been sent to the Lab a few months ago,before Joseph DeAngelo,who is suspected of being the East Area Rapist,was caught after investigators used a DNA profile run through on an open-source database.Poyser said he hoped the same approach could be used if a complete profile of the Zodiac is obtained.''.
Sacramento Bee May 4th 2018
''Several months ago,the Vallejo Police Department sent two letters written by the Zodiac Killer,to private Labs in hopes of finding his DNA on the back of the stamps or envelope flaps that may have been licked.They are expecting results soon.''.
Benicia Herald May 8th 2018
''The Vallejo Police Department issued a statement trying to calm current speculation.''
''The Zodiac case has been an open investigation for several decades in the city of Vallejo.''
''With any open homicide investigation,Vallejo Police Detectives still follow up on new leads and continually work to identify a suspect.Over the course of this investigation,Vallejo Police Detectives have always taken advantage of emerging technologies and new advances in forensic science to assist in the identification of a suspect.''.
The Vallejo Police department's statement,concluded thus :
''Currently,we are not close to identifying a suspect,nor do we anticipate developing that information at any time in the near future.''.
The ''soon to be retired'' Detective Poyser,could not be reached,for further comment.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 27, 2018 6:09:28 GMT -8
I see that,recently,some unofficial commentary,from a Vallejo Police source,indicates that,the official ''line'' from the Vallejo Police is,that work is still ongoing,with regard to their claims that Zodiac's DNA might be gleaned from specified envelopes,at a ''private'' Laboratory.
Much of the talk,since,has been that since the VPD indicated that this possibility of Zodiac's DNA,might emerge.....then there is the obvious inference that,the authorities never actually had Zodiac's DNA,in the first place....and that,if they claimed that they did have Zodiac's DNA,then they were mistaken.
Expressions,such as ''The 2002 Scandal'' and ''Fake DNA Exclusion'' have emerged,in the Zodiac website community,to this effect,with reference to forensics work that was carried out 2002/2003.
Let us be clear about this :
Those who deny that Zodiac's DNA was never actually found,are actually referring to a ''loose'' agreement,between Primetime TV and an underfunded and understaffed SFPD Laboratory.This ''unofficial'' work,claimed to have been carried out,for the benefit of public consumption.
But officially....in 2002,after representations by ex-Highway Policeman,and Zodiac investigator,Lyndon Lafferty....to The President of the United States,George W.Bush....The US DOJ instructed the CA DOJ,to clear up to 250 suspects....essentially,''clogging up'' further investigations.
The DNA garnered for this unprecedented work,came from Quantico,under personal supervision of senior FBI officials,in the service of requests from the CA DOJ,after those instructions,from the US DOJ.....following George W Bush's request.....on initial representations from Lyndon Lafferty.
This work was carried out,and signed for,by a number of senior officials,including then Director of the FBI,Robert Mueller,and current head of the FBI's Cryptanalysis and Racketeering Unit,Dan Olson.
Are we really to believe the word of the the SFPD lab,over Quantico,one of the world's finest crime fighting facilities ? ? ?
And indeed,are we really expected to believe that,the CA DOJ,are in denial of this clearance work.....that they requested,and signed for.
I believe the answer is ''No''.
The CA DOJ know perfectly well,that they have been in possession of Zodiac's DNA....since 2003,at the latest.
And further more,it is the CA DOJ,who have instructed the Vallejo Police,to tell lies to the press and public.Information emanating out of the VPD,including ''envelopes'' and a ''private Lab'' is just a ruse.....and a stalling tactic,to buy time.
To ''buy time'' for what,precisely ?
''That'' is the real question.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 27, 2018 8:12:33 GMT -8
I should just like to make a freely expressed point,further.
And,really,it is no big deal,from a personal point.
As I wrote,and posted the previous post,''someone'' planted the ''humbug'' symbol,when I stated :
''Are we really to believe the word of the SFPD lab,over Quantico,one of the world's finest crime fighting facilities'' [Humbug symbol]
Now,one person I am confident,did ''not'' plant the humbug symbol,was ''Ricardo''...who is one of the most ''open minded'' researchers and investigators,in the Zodiac community.
But whoever ''did'',surely gives away,what is all becoming too apparent,in the light of Poyser and the VPD's strange claims on envelopes and a private laboratory.
That being,that there too many examining the Zodiac case,with a ''Village mentality'.More specifically,that somehow,Bay Area cops are more ''in the know'',and carry more ''clout'',than the CA DOJ and ''Federal'' government agencies.
My only advice to those is : ''Stop being wet behind the ears'',and start opening your eyes to a wider picture.
Thank you.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Sept 29, 2018 11:54:01 GMT -8
I believe it appropriate,in light of the recent unfounded aspersions caste upon the FBI's work,carried out,to clear a perceived large quantity of Zodiac case suspects,2002/2003,to speak on behalf of the late,and noble,Lyndon Lafferty.
For Mr.Lafferty,whom I had the privilege of corresponding with,is clearly in no position to defend himself.
Mr.Lafferty had come to a personal conclusion that William Joseph Grant was the Zodiac,but nevertheless,saw a problem arising with further official investigations,largely down to the welter of suspects,in the case,that had accumulated,in the thirty years or so,unsuccessful solution to the case.
Mr.Lafferty had made repeated requests to Bill Lockyear,Attorney General of the CA DOJ,to this effect,without success.
Mr.Lafferty,found himself making representations to The President of The United States,out of desperation.
George W Bush then understood the underling problem,and consulted with the US DOJ.
Hence,the chain of command came about,with the unprecedented step,for a criminal case,and the CA DOJ's arm being forced to seek DNA work from the FBI.
As a result,some high profile suspects,such as Arthur Leigh Allen and Mr.X were cleared,officially.
Although William Joseph Grant was no longer a ''legal'' suspect,his DNA was checked against an official Zodiac DNA profile,and Mr.Grant was cleared,also.
Mr.Lafferty naturally bemoaned the result,since he had invested much of his time investigating William Grant.But Mr.Lafferty had no choice,but to take it on the chin.
Perhaps,unlike some amateur investigators now,who are looking for any excuse,like the contradictory claims emanating from the Vallejo Police,to ''breathe new life'' into their chosen suspects,already long gone ''dead in the water'',as prospective candidates for being The Zodiac.
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Oct 14, 2018 11:50:05 GMT -8
Well,well,well....
Seven months on,with ''diddly squat'' coming from the Vallejo Police Department and Detective Poyser,over the '' Two envelopes and private Lab. ''.And,nothing really looking like materialising,in the near future.
From late September 2017,a post from Mr.Tom Voigt :
'' In early September 2017,at the request of Detective Terry Poyser,of the Vallejo Police Department,I was invited within the department's walls,all the way to the evidence room.I was allowed to copy some photos,police reports,and pages of Zodiac correspondence,none of which had been reproduced for the public,before.Poyser is a sweet guy,and knows that a Zodiac nerd like me,might be able to spot something significant.''
Now,this is all too reminiscent of Lyndon Lafferty,and his invitations to the ''inner sanctums'' of both the VPD and Benicia Police.Where,the ''really important stuff'' was kept.In both cases,Lafferty walked out with ''souvenirs'',as if he was the cat who got the cream,and considered that the desk sergeants may have later had their ''asses chewed'',for allowing him.to do this.
More particularly,Lafferty secured ''The Benicia High School Note'' and the ''1990 Celebrity Cipher'',and in his book,he states that it was suggested to him [...by a policeman ?..],that these two presumed Zodiac correspondences,were forensically linked.
And again,we have the example of website manager,Mr.Mike Morford,who secured the ''1988 New Canaan Letters'',in Spring of 2015.
It does seem that Mr.Voigt was used,to an extent ?
Yes,good public relations,for Terry Poyser and the VPD...but,perhaps a bit of ''softening up'',as an investment for the VPD,in the future,if they happened to have need,to ''sell'' the authenticity of information,to the public ?
In May of 2018,Detective Poyser,in the wake of the GSK arrest,gave notice publicly,of intent by the VPD,to find the ''apparently elusive'',by inference,DNA profile of The Zodiac Killer.
Suddenly,it would seem,that all the work carried out,by the FBI,on behalf of the CA DOJ,on instructions of the US DOJ,at the behest of President George W.Bush,and after representations made by Lyndon Lafferty,in order to clear a backlog of accumulated Zodiac suspects....counted for absolutely nothing [?].
''Law Enforcement'' have their ''ways and means'',and make decisions,in curious ways.
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Zamantha
Moderator
Zodiac Killer Mystery Moderator
Posts: 44
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Post by Zamantha on Nov 26, 2018 22:11:16 GMT -8
Copied a post by John B. Averitt, From Tom V’s Forum: 12:35 PM - Nov 17, 2018 #24 Hello All, There are many comments and questions since I wrote last here so I will attempt to address the ones I can. First the touch DNA issue. Please read the old posts on what we are attempting to collect DNA from. This is clothes line, the old type. It was old 3/8 inch rope at Berryessa and not here. The murder suspect wore gloves but likely pre-cut the lengths of the clothes lines before he got to the scene. The extra pieces of clothes line were also at the scene. I was educated on touch DNA by Bode Labs. I think they are one of the best. My instructor has written many articles. One of her best is noted here. She worked for Bode Labs back in 2011. Touch DNA: Forensic Collection and Application to Investigations. Article by Angela L. Williamson, PhD Bode Technology, Lorton, Virginia, USA This article was written in 2011. The collection depends on the object the detective is taking the sample from. In 2014 I presented a paper to the International Society of Identification. These people are DNA experts. I presented the Z case with focus on Berryessa and Santa Barbara. They agreed that the vacuum method should be used on the Berryessa rope (as you saw in the History Channel on the Riverside pants) and the swab method should be used on the solid clothes line to gather Touch DNA. Now we only need between five and ten cells to gather a sample. This is the technique to gather cells by the swab technique I was taught for solid material. Be sure to wear appropriate personal protective equipment. If using a dry swab, extract distilled water from vial using sterile pipette and apply one drop to the side of the tip. Do not use more than one drop, and do not dip the swab into the water. If using a self-saturating foam-tipped swab, open and remove swab holding foam tip facing down. Then squeeze handle until it pops, releasing medium into tip. Apply tip to sample area and rub using moderate pressure while rotating the swab to ensure the entire swab surface has made contact with the object. To avoid compromising the sample by redepositing specimen, do not rotate more than once. If using dry swab, allow to air dry then place tip in dry transport tube or vial. If using self-saturating foam-tipped swab, gently peel foam tip away from handle and place in sterile container for transport. Label the tube or envelope with identifying information. Use evidence tape to seal outer packaging. Initial and date for chain of custody verification. Store swab at room temperature or transfer to freezer until testing. Remember if we collect Touch DNA from Santa Barbara, we only need to see if any DNA matches the DNA at Berryessa or other samples that are attributed to Z. Any other samples from detectives are not significant. As to what evidence was common between the Berryessa and Santa Barbara, that has never been released. The sheriff noted there was such evidence at the time of the joint press conference back in 1974. I do know that evidence. That is all I can say. jbaveritt www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiack ... 5-s10.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If Zodiac ever joined a Z forum, I'm sure he would have been banned for not following forum rules. Zam's/Quote ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Nov 27, 2018 5:29:35 GMT -8
This is all very interesting,with respect to forensics possibilities,from Mr.Averitt.
And,from how he articulates the information,he clearly ''knows his stuff''.
But,this has little relevance to what is,or has been,taking place,on the forensics front.....and,by whom.
Those that perpetuate this notion of ''There never has been any Zodiac DNA,and may never be any'',are simply whistling in the wind,based on TV companies money and hearsay from purported retired policemen,and the odd lab technicians,who hold no proof that they have ever had,or been given the responsibility of handling genuine Zodiac evidence.
This responsibility remains the domain of the FBI,who carry out requests from the California State Department of Justice.
This work takes place at Quantico,and not such places as an understaffed and underfunded SFPD lab.
Such statements as were made,earlier in the year,by Detective Poyser and the Vallejo Police Department,are not only contradictory,to statements signed for by individuals,such as The Attorney General,but outright lies,designed to pacify a curious local public,while work continues elsewhere.
''Envelopes'' ? ,''Secret Lab'' ? Simply an outrageous insult to the public's intelligence,and the VPD should be held accountable for behaviour unbecoming of their obligations to public service,at a later date.
A ''Toytown'' mentality,to the case,from a Bay Area perspective,serves no one's needs,save the few amateur ''idiots'',with a personal suspect,long sunk in the water as a viable ''Zodiac'',which they insist on clinging on to,for no other reason,than vanity or a few extra ''bob'' in their pockets.
These ''idiots'' don't want the truth....they run and hide from it...in case it finally bursts the bubble,on their old guesses that were deduced on the back of inadequate research.
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Post by Toots2 on Nov 2, 2020 20:10:56 GMT -8
June 26, 1970 Button Letter, Zodiac wrote, "I promiced to punish them if they did not comply, by anilating a full school bus. But now school is out for the Summer, so I punished them in another way." April 19, 1970 1am - Stinson Beach schoolhouse destroyed by arson fire. While the fireman were attending the school file, another fire was set at 2am at the Stinson Beach State Park, service area. A tractor there was set ablaze. Setting a schoolhouse on fire is certainly another way of punishing. Link to article can be found here; www.newspapers.com/image/74433023
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