Post by WelshChappie on Mar 3, 2016 15:10:42 GMT -8
The absconding from Taxi with intent (not to pay for it) is not the most serious offence, nor is First Degree Murder. No, the San Francisco Police Dpt. are listing the charges in order of seriousness and No.1 is:
Calling Inspector David Toschi a Pig, a Felony Offence with a maximum punishment of Life without parole.
You cannot allow people to refer to them Nice police People as Pigs, that's simply outrageous! Dirty Harry Dave still cries when you remind Him what Zodiac referred to him as.
An interesting point made,WelshChappie...that which they could charge Zodiac with - apart from Murder,Attempted Murder and Extortion [?].
So I take it that accusing the police of having their snouts in the trough,is top of the list [?].There is also impersonating a registered library user,to consider [?].Perhaps even trespassing on university premises.Also forcing a taxi driver to accept an unwanted tip - a bullet.
If the image of the Green Room at San Quentin is ever dangled in front of Zodiac,I suspect he will plead guilty to most charges placed before him [?].
Post by WelshChappie on Mar 6, 2016 6:04:41 GMT -8
Well I never did quite understand the FBI documents, well some of them anyway, stating:
TO: FBI LATENT DPT.
RE: ZODIAC - EXTORTION.
He threatened the papers if they didn't print what He had sent He would do something nasty and that you could define in Legal terms as terrorist threats or blackmail but Extortion? I could be wrong, and because Extortion is the listed offence I must be, but when I think of the word or crime of Extortion, immediately I think of extorting something from another such as money, property, any thing that I at the person extorting another want from another.
Zodiac never said, to my knowledge anyway, Print this Cipher on your front page now, and give me 25 grand or i'll blow up The Chronicle Building. I suppose though the Law is open to interpretation by the lawmaker's though so if they decide 'He's extorted the reputation SFPD Patrol Cops having the audacity to tell the truth in relation to an event we are concealing, and does so with "Doesn't it rile you up to have your face rubbed in your boo boos. At this point I half expect The CIA & DOD to declare revealing this information as this mouthy gob-shite has done, is a matter of National Security.
Though I do have to wonder if CIA DOD in this case means Cant Investigate Anything with Dispatcher On Drugs.
PS: I hope that isn't classed as, and myself be charged with Extortion
Of course they [police and DOJ] should and will throw Extortion into the list of charges,since the inference,if not the threat of more carnage,was made by Zodiac - and his letters are proof to this ''reality''.
There are the ''inferences''- which technically may be deemed ''questionable'' :
''PS could you print this new cipher on your front page ? I get awfully lonely when I am ignored,so lonely I could do my Thing !!!!!!! ''
''.....They have not complied with my wishes for them to wear some nice [Zodiac] buttons.I promiced to punish them if they did not comply...''
''.....If you do not wear any type of [Zodiac] buttons I shall [on top of every thing else] torture all 13 of my slaves....''
BUT,where LE really have Zodiac ''banged to rights'' on an Extortion charge is :
''PS. If I do not see this note in your paper,I will do something nasty,which you know I'm capable of doing.''
I think,with other examples such as the content of the ''Count Marco letter'',there is certainly enough for LE to ''handpick'' what to ''throw'' in Zodiac's direction.
Post by WelshChappie on Mar 13, 2016 13:06:12 GMT -8
Well we'd have to look to Legalese Itself for an actual definition of Extortion and the Law Society give it a general definition of: " A crime of obtaining money or property by threat to a victim's property or loved ones, intimidation, or false claim of a right."
Now in Legislative Legal Terms, Extortion as a criminal offence has many different forms itself in terms of what may be legally defined as Extorting or extortion and many different types of this crime are regularly prosecuted in A Court. Extortion can and is defined as a stand alone clearly defined Offence at Federal Level.
It seems to me that In Legalese, Extortion is synonymous with Blackmail and one often gets interlinked with the other.
Anyway, enough of the finer specifics of what extortion is because the truth is, in the States it depends which State your in as to what defines actual extortion as a chargeable crime. The Point is this:
Given the potential to go after Zodiac for a range of very serious felony offences, Offences that likely would see more resources being committed in the FBI's pursuit of Him, Why go after Him for Extortion?
Makes little sense to me. Extorting nobody for nothing rather than, i dunno, committing Homicides across State Lines?
Post by WelshChappie on Mar 13, 2016 13:18:53 GMT -8
Did the Bureau take the position in the late Sixties to Early Seventies of:
"The San Francisco Unknown Subject that we refer to as The Zodiac, this individual May murder as many people He likes all over the place, we'll certainly frown upon that. However, should He try to extort a person to gain something of theirs....immediate upgrading to Position No.1 on the FBI's Ten most Wanted.
And of course, this isn't your average extortion, oh no! He would be attempting Astrological Extortion! See, that's far worse!
Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 29, 2019 20:44:47 GMT -8
Welcome to '' ZKS '',Randolph Carter.
What you have posted,on this thread looks interesting.
Can you explain to readers,what you are referring to,and give the reader,at least some basis,by how you come to your conclusion ?
There are three main events,in the history of the Zodiac case,that might be considered as ''blunders''....that are known about.
I would suggest that those mistakes are :
The Riverside Police's decision to send correspondences,related to the Cheri Jo Bates murder,to the Post Office Fraud Department...instead of the FBI,for whom the Riverside Police were aware were the specialists in extortion,related to the act of murder.
The succesful court injuction,that William Grant won against all law enforcement,for Police Harrassment....which rendered the Vallejo Police's further role in the Zodiac case,all but completely redundant.
The Inspector Toschi ''Fan Mail'' scandal,and its subsequent ramifications to the Zodiac case.
The three aforementioned can be debated and discussed further....with,for example,the question of if there was any cover-up....and if so - then to what extent.
So,Randolph Carter....please inform members and visiting guests,further,with respect to what exactly,you are offering as other subject matter,that might be construed as encompassing the notion of ''cover-up'',in the Zodiac case,specifically.
Post by RandolphCarter on Aug 29, 2019 22:26:27 GMT -8
In the June 12-19 1970, an article appeared in the Berkeley Tribe wherein the articles author "Rick Heide" (rh?) reports his wife, on staff at the tribe,was harassed by a squad of officers that searched their house without a warrant. Mr Heide was then brought in on suspicion of affiliation with the Weathermen (of radical infamy as opposed to the meteorological variety) with what seems like little proof to go on only to find that Lowell Jensen, the District Attorney had personally signed the warrant.
There are many other articles regarding Lowell Jensen all with a similar tone.
Perhaps Miss Jensen was related to Lowell Jensen, establishing a motive at least in the vein that this Rick Heide had been targeted by Jensen. This could suggest a cover up in that if Betty Lou's murder were solved, his practices would have come to light and if he his actions were the result of COINTELPRO harassment, it would have been in the best interest of the city, state and federal government for the murder to remain unsolved.
Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 29, 2019 22:45:12 GMT -8
Thanks for that Randolph Carter.Initially,it does sound feasible.I will see if I can find out more,before venturing any thoughts.
Interesting that you have brought up COINTELPRO....which for readers that might be interested,was in essence,the counter intelligence branch of the FBI,in their fight against ''perceived'' criminal behaviour,with respect to emerging Black Extremist factions,such as The Black Panther Party and Organization US.
Historians tend to be divided as to the legitimacy of some of COINTELPRO's actions.
Post by RandolphCarter on Aug 29, 2019 22:51:38 GMT -8
I apologize if you aren't familiar with the judge I refer to. Mr. Smith published an article in the September 19-25 issue of the Tribe wherein he describes his father's betrayal, allegedly his father conspired with a judge and sent him to prison for an arson he did not commit.
Post by RandolphCarter on Aug 29, 2019 22:57:54 GMT -8
Also, this interview Mae Brussell conducted with Charles Manson's arresting officer Preston Guillory contains Mr. Guillory stating that the majority of officers read the underground news as they found the mainstream news useless except for a laugh. If this was the case in California and not just in Los Angeles, more than one officer would have seen the multitude of articles printed in various underground papers alluding to zodiac crimes. The Underground Press Syndicate, publisher of the Tribe and various other rags was on the CIA and the FBI's radar. This is circumstantial. I will look into others mentioned rubislaw32, thank you.
Rubislaw32: Oct.6th 2021 -Fox news announce Case Breaker's findings. Nov.1st 2021 - FBI release 411 page D B Cooper File. Within 25 days FBI have appeased Mr Colbert. The thrust of non-suspect Gary Poste's guilt was Donna Lass. ''Donna Lass'' positively haunts the FBI
Nov 30, 2021 16:01:00 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: The mystery of the Zodiac Killer case ? But, it is also a mystery about the FBI's personal involvement in the Zodiac Killer case. They were supposed to assist and, even solve it themselves. Remember Mr Trump's words to the FBI : '' Clean up your mess.''.
Nov 30, 2021 14:19:37 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Where does that leave the Donna Lass disappearance ? Knowledge beyond any reasonable doubt, by the FBI, that the Zodiac had nothing to do with the Donna Lass case. But, did the FBI know more than that ? The South Lake Tahoe PD have not been happy recently.
Nov 30, 2021 14:00:10 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: In the run-in to the March 22nd 1971 Pines Card, the FBI would have needed complicity with the SF Chronicle, and the Condominium Co. on advertising - paid for by the FBI? The FBI would have known the card's original purpose, and so would the SF Chronicle.
Nov 30, 2021 13:50:12 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Just as a reference to the Pines Card. It was the Zodiac who, of course chose its design, and originally sent it, circa May 1970,as a follow up to the Dragon Card, in order to (falsely) incriminate Pa Grant, further, on Judith Hakari's murder.
Nov 30, 2021 13:39:04 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: We all play the numbers game with Z's murders. Beyond the 5 Bay area ones ? I have him down for none before LHR. After PH ? Three, but one of those was second-degree. Leaving two for DOJ's to focus on in particular. The FBI being surplus to requirements.
Nov 30, 2021 8:21:58 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Contained in the FBI's vaults is evidence that the Zodiac was the most prolific small-time extortionist in criminal history. The FBI were entrusted to catch him, through this very practice. But, he turned out smarter than them - and by a long chalk.
Nov 30, 2021 7:16:45 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: We must continue to hope, and have faith in DOJ's to nail the Zodiac for at least one murder, and secure a subsequent plea deal to ensure justice for all his victims. Then, their families might receive a long-overdue explanation for his behaviour.
Nov 30, 2021 7:08:13 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: That ''rainy day'' was allocated to the disappearance of Donna Lass, and an opportunity to bait the Zodiac. At present, the South Lake Tahoe P.D. maintain a dignified silence over the matter, but this is a ticking time bomb, waiting to go off. Cheers FBI.
Nov 29, 2021 21:11:33 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Pines Card fiasco ? The implications are truly cruel and horrible to contemplate. Judith Hakari's abduction and violent death would have had a much better chance of being solved, if the FBI had not elected to confiscate the Pines Card, for a ''rainy day''.
Nov 29, 2021 21:05:04 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: The days of Fagan and his colleagues' dodgy Zodiac-related claims, as well as having wet dreams waiting for another FBI fix - are OVER. If a Zodiac arrest is made, they would do better to sort out their part in the Pines Card fiasco, and payments to Cheney
Nov 29, 2021 20:23:01 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: In light of SF Chronicle journalist Kevin Fagan's recent re-vamp of his career C.V., emphasizing a decent and honest hack with homeless charity interests, he might like to reflect that it isn't going to make his part in Zodiac case shenanigans go away.
Nov 29, 2021 20:15:32 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: What might save the FBI (?). Difficult to assess. Operations performed on the hierarchy's forked tongues might help. But, it's ''humility'' that they are lacking. Forced to assist schoolchildren and old ladies cross roads safely would be a good idea.
Nov 29, 2021 18:35:12 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: I certainly don't begrudge the D B Cooper fraternity though. Through muscling in to get what they wanted - Good Luck to them. But, it begins to demonstrate where the FBI really are at, and their current mindset ? Like Edvard Munch's painting ''The Scream''
Nov 29, 2021 18:15:54 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: An interesting but disappointing reflection of 2021, I believe, is that as Z followers await anything remotely like an FBI File No.7, and for years, the D B Cooper fraternity receive an FBI File No.64, through behaving badly. The FBI's priorities ?
Nov 29, 2021 18:10:28 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Seattle Times, March 25th 2021 : '' If anything dire happens to me (or any I love) - what I gave the cops gets published immediately.''. So, no movement from Z, then ? And, he brazenly (or otherwise ?) believes he can cover for his family's safety, also.
Nov 28, 2021 22:32:05 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Naturally we all think that Z should give himself up. But, he is still trying to eek out his freedom. And, one should bear in mind that, in all likelihood, Z has been only too happy to have seen Lenny Paradiso spend his last 28 years of life in prison.
Nov 28, 2021 13:17:16 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: .....firstly, the DOJ's are struggling to come up with at least one murder to pin on him, with confidence. But also...a law enforcement agency might try to take him out. Now - which LE agency has most face to lose ? I fancy that Z will think the FBI.
Nov 28, 2021 13:02:21 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Given that the Zodiac is still alive (as I do) one has to start looking at matters from his perspective. Z will know about all the lying that the FBI have been doing, and will surmise that because he has yet to be arrested, then....
Nov 28, 2021 12:57:30 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: It's a wonder really, why the U.S. DOJ still allows them to meddle with the Zodiac case. The FBI attempting dishonest damage limitation, if the case happens to find a public resolution - and become the most embarrassing moment in their 113 year history.
Nov 28, 2021 9:37:02 GMT -8