Post by WelshChappie on Mar 3, 2016 15:10:42 GMT -8
The absconding from Taxi with intent (not to pay for it) is not the most serious offence, nor is First Degree Murder. No, the San Francisco Police Dpt. are listing the charges in order of seriousness and No.1 is:
Calling Inspector David Toschi a Pig, a Felony Offence with a maximum punishment of Life without parole.
You cannot allow people to refer to them Nice police People as Pigs, that's simply outrageous! Dirty Harry Dave still cries when you remind Him what Zodiac referred to him as.
An interesting point made,WelshChappie...that which they could charge Zodiac with - apart from Murder,Attempted Murder and Extortion [?].
So I take it that accusing the police of having their snouts in the trough,is top of the list [?].There is also impersonating a registered library user,to consider [?].Perhaps even trespassing on university premises.Also forcing a taxi driver to accept an unwanted tip - a bullet.
If the image of the Green Room at San Quentin is ever dangled in front of Zodiac,I suspect he will plead guilty to most charges placed before him [?].
Post by WelshChappie on Mar 6, 2016 6:04:41 GMT -8
Well I never did quite understand the FBI documents, well some of them anyway, stating:
TO: FBI LATENT DPT.
RE: ZODIAC - EXTORTION.
He threatened the papers if they didn't print what He had sent He would do something nasty and that you could define in Legal terms as terrorist threats or blackmail but Extortion? I could be wrong, and because Extortion is the listed offence I must be, but when I think of the word or crime of Extortion, immediately I think of extorting something from another such as money, property, any thing that I at the person extorting another want from another.
Zodiac never said, to my knowledge anyway, Print this Cipher on your front page now, and give me 25 grand or i'll blow up The Chronicle Building. I suppose though the Law is open to interpretation by the lawmaker's though so if they decide 'He's extorted the reputation SFPD Patrol Cops having the audacity to tell the truth in relation to an event we are concealing, and does so with "Doesn't it rile you up to have your face rubbed in your boo boos. At this point I half expect The CIA & DOD to declare revealing this information as this mouthy gob-shite has done, is a matter of National Security.
Though I do have to wonder if CIA DOD in this case means Cant Investigate Anything with Dispatcher On Drugs.
PS: I hope that isn't classed as, and myself be charged with Extortion
Of course they [police and DOJ] should and will throw Extortion into the list of charges,since the inference,if not the threat of more carnage,was made by Zodiac - and his letters are proof to this ''reality''.
There are the ''inferences''- which technically may be deemed ''questionable'' :
''PS could you print this new cipher on your front page ? I get awfully lonely when I am ignored,so lonely I could do my Thing !!!!!!! ''
''.....They have not complied with my wishes for them to wear some nice [Zodiac] buttons.I promiced to punish them if they did not comply...''
''.....If you do not wear any type of [Zodiac] buttons I shall [on top of every thing else] torture all 13 of my slaves....''
BUT,where LE really have Zodiac ''banged to rights'' on an Extortion charge is :
''PS. If I do not see this note in your paper,I will do something nasty,which you know I'm capable of doing.''
I think,with other examples such as the content of the ''Count Marco letter'',there is certainly enough for LE to ''handpick'' what to ''throw'' in Zodiac's direction.
Post by WelshChappie on Mar 13, 2016 13:06:12 GMT -8
Well we'd have to look to Legalese Itself for an actual definition of Extortion and the Law Society give it a general definition of: " A crime of obtaining money or property by threat to a victim's property or loved ones, intimidation, or false claim of a right."
Now in Legislative Legal Terms, Extortion as a criminal offence has many different forms itself in terms of what may be legally defined as Extorting or extortion and many different types of this crime are regularly prosecuted in A Court. Extortion can and is defined as a stand alone clearly defined Offence at Federal Level.
It seems to me that In Legalese, Extortion is synonymous with Blackmail and one often gets interlinked with the other.
Anyway, enough of the finer specifics of what extortion is because the truth is, in the States it depends which State your in as to what defines actual extortion as a chargeable crime. The Point is this:
Given the potential to go after Zodiac for a range of very serious felony offences, Offences that likely would see more resources being committed in the FBI's pursuit of Him, Why go after Him for Extortion?
Makes little sense to me. Extorting nobody for nothing rather than, i dunno, committing Homicides across State Lines?
Post by WelshChappie on Mar 13, 2016 13:18:53 GMT -8
Did the Bureau take the position in the late Sixties to Early Seventies of:
"The San Francisco Unknown Subject that we refer to as The Zodiac, this individual May murder as many people He likes all over the place, we'll certainly frown upon that. However, should He try to extort a person to gain something of theirs....immediate upgrading to Position No.1 on the FBI's Ten most Wanted.
And of course, this isn't your average extortion, oh no! He would be attempting Astrological Extortion! See, that's far worse!
Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 29, 2019 20:44:47 GMT -8
Welcome to '' ZKS '',Randolph Carter.
What you have posted,on this thread looks interesting.
Can you explain to readers,what you are referring to,and give the reader,at least some basis,by how you come to your conclusion ?
There are three main events,in the history of the Zodiac case,that might be considered as ''blunders''....that are known about.
I would suggest that those mistakes are :
The Riverside Police's decision to send correspondences,related to the Cheri Jo Bates murder,to the Post Office Fraud Department...instead of the FBI,for whom the Riverside Police were aware were the specialists in extortion,related to the act of murder.
The succesful court injuction,that William Grant won against all law enforcement,for Police Harrassment....which rendered the Vallejo Police's further role in the Zodiac case,all but completely redundant.
The Inspector Toschi ''Fan Mail'' scandal,and its subsequent ramifications to the Zodiac case.
The three aforementioned can be debated and discussed further....with,for example,the question of if there was any cover-up....and if so - then to what extent.
So,Randolph Carter....please inform members and visiting guests,further,with respect to what exactly,you are offering as other subject matter,that might be construed as encompassing the notion of ''cover-up'',in the Zodiac case,specifically.
Post by RandolphCarter on Aug 29, 2019 22:26:27 GMT -8
In the June 12-19 1970, an article appeared in the Berkeley Tribe wherein the articles author "Rick Heide" (rh?) reports his wife, on staff at the tribe,was harassed by a squad of officers that searched their house without a warrant. Mr Heide was then brought in on suspicion of affiliation with the Weathermen (of radical infamy as opposed to the meteorological variety) with what seems like little proof to go on only to find that Lowell Jensen, the District Attorney had personally signed the warrant.
There are many other articles regarding Lowell Jensen all with a similar tone.
Perhaps Miss Jensen was related to Lowell Jensen, establishing a motive at least in the vein that this Rick Heide had been targeted by Jensen. This could suggest a cover up in that if Betty Lou's murder were solved, his practices would have come to light and if he his actions were the result of COINTELPRO harassment, it would have been in the best interest of the city, state and federal government for the murder to remain unsolved.
Post by Rubislaw32 on Aug 29, 2019 22:45:12 GMT -8
Thanks for that Randolph Carter.Initially,it does sound feasible.I will see if I can find out more,before venturing any thoughts.
Interesting that you have brought up COINTELPRO....which for readers that might be interested,was in essence,the counter intelligence branch of the FBI,in their fight against ''perceived'' criminal behaviour,with respect to emerging Black Extremist factions,such as The Black Panther Party and Organization US.
Historians tend to be divided as to the legitimacy of some of COINTELPRO's actions.
Post by RandolphCarter on Aug 29, 2019 22:51:38 GMT -8
I apologize if you aren't familiar with the judge I refer to. Mr. Smith published an article in the September 19-25 issue of the Tribe wherein he describes his father's betrayal, allegedly his father conspired with a judge and sent him to prison for an arson he did not commit.
Post by RandolphCarter on Aug 29, 2019 22:57:54 GMT -8
Also, this interview Mae Brussell conducted with Charles Manson's arresting officer Preston Guillory contains Mr. Guillory stating that the majority of officers read the underground news as they found the mainstream news useless except for a laugh. If this was the case in California and not just in Los Angeles, more than one officer would have seen the multitude of articles printed in various underground papers alluding to zodiac crimes. The Underground Press Syndicate, publisher of the Tribe and various other rags was on the CIA and the FBI's radar. This is circumstantial. I will look into others mentioned rubislaw32, thank you.
Rubislaw32: Secret Pa William Grant for the murders he had committed, and likely now that he had at least claimed for Jane Doe 59 (Reet) in Los Angeles - but suppressed by the FBI. Moreover, he had no guns left. Beyond a blades man, he would have to become a bomber.
Oct 1, 2023 9:11:47 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: There were a handful of reasons the Zodiac was at his lowest ebb, as apparently inferred in his letter to Belli of December 20th 1969. One year on from his first attack at Lake Herman Road, the Zodiac seemed no closer to successfully fitting up his...
Oct 1, 2023 8:58:57 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: ...in his letter sent to Melvin Belli. With the murder of gay lamp designer Robert Salem covered by the SF Chronicle in April 1970, it presented a chance to provoke Z into turning up figuratively again. An immediate response from Z resulted - he was back.
Oct 1, 2023 8:03:29 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: And lo and behold, back to basics and something case-pertinent: The writings of William Heirens, The Lipstick Killer, above a lamp: ''For heavens sake, catch me before I kill more - I cannot control myself.''. These words clearly influencing the Zodiac,...
Oct 1, 2023 7:52:37 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Voigt's site is a sad load of ''zodiacfiller.tom ''. Travel to its peripheries, and you might find an interesting topic debated by sensible contributors. But up front, it's a house of madness furnished by someone now blacklisted by all of law enforcement.
Oct 1, 2023 7:09:31 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Tom: ''I have my site of dreams; my Gyke candidate & imaginary friends. Who needs Zodiac ?'. Ms Betts: ''I have never known Tom to make up a lie. I have my Honcho & his boys, and my story & the tears that I cry.''. Tom: ''I have no reason to doubt Sandy.''
Oct 1, 2023 6:21:19 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Voigt's glove puppet Uncle Sporkums is known for his innocuousness. This in contrast to Sporkum's flashing avatar, which keeps anyone with photophobia sensitivities away from his site. You're never alone with a Strand ? For Tom - it's an imaginary friend.
Oct 1, 2023 1:13:07 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Voigt's pettax not only used as an attack dog on Morf. He confuses regular members, also: ''There isn't any need to come up with a suspect. Becoming famous for not solving the case, unless rock solid nuke proof.''. Bolt: ''Didn't follow a word of that.''.
Oct 1, 2023 0:33:17 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Did you see the funny side of that one, ''Fibbers'' ? Martinez, and across the Carquinez Strait actually. Yes, Smack & Coke - Brown & White Sugar. Z probably imagined he would alert a small army of The FIB to descend on an entirely innocent sugar refinery.
Sept 30, 2023 9:41:35 GMT -8
Rub--law32: But maybe ?: Feb 6th 1980, to FBI Director Webster from a CA address: ''I am very pleased with your ABSCAM investigation. I would like to remind you that organized crime smuggles 90% of its drugs as raw & processed sugar thru the C&H Sugar Co., Benicia.''.
Sept 30, 2023 6:59:41 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: SF Examiner, August 4th 1969: ''When the girls failed to return home by 6:30 pm, Deborah's father Glen Furlong called police.''. Interestingly perhaps, two dates appear assigned to Vallejo on Bryan's door. There is no record of Z ever mentioning Benicia.
Sept 30, 2023 6:09:08 GMT -8
Rub--law32: Z's Dripping Pen card of Nov 8th 1969 claimed for 7 murders, and included the month of August (Aug). This accounts for the false claim of girls Snoozy & Furlong. Why not written on Bryan's car door ? It was:''6.30'' - time girls should have been home by.
Sept 30, 2023 5:46:01 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: An inference: Emma Caldwell (April 5th 2005, Glasgow) has been a spearheading murder victim, as early as Jan 2015. And it was her reinvestigation starting May 2015, which precipitated a move on Jane Doe 59 (Reet Jurvetson), the following month - June 2015.
Sept 30, 2023 3:57:19 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Update: If the case that San Jose PD received a Stine shirt swatch with the Nov 21st 1969 letter. And, given that LAPD acted on Jane Doe 59 in June 2015, then one realistic conclusion: The Zodiac is suspected of murdering Reet Jurvetson, Nov 14th 1969, LA.
Sept 30, 2023 3:18:27 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: You see CA DOJ, these are the sorts of concerns the public might have about your leadership. Granted you appear to have a special relationship with SFPD. But, why did you not inform South Lake Tahoe, Vallejo & Riverside PD's that FBI were case-excluded ?
Sept 30, 2023 2:21:56 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: The FBI: Intelligence Processors of The Zodiac Killer case, in the service of case custodians CA DOJ, 1969 - 2015. Yes, lying FBI - it came to an end. NO LONGER REQUIRED, on account of your Director James Comey's case conduct. Take note, all media outlets.
Sept 30, 2023 1:32:28 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Indeed, the focus will swing from who this man was, to why CA DOJ never solved it. Naturally, CA DOJ should desire to deliver Zodiac justice, but their actual abilities and case leadership will come into question, for performance of FBI alone - shambolic.
Sept 29, 2023 23:52:59 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: One has to wonder where the CA DOJ's head is ? In the sand ? No doubt they have weathered storms before, but the Zodiac case is the slow-burning mother of them all. Unsolved officially, it will never leave; soon to represent no hope left and only ridicule.
Sept 29, 2023 23:06:04 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Sometime never, CA DOJ ? It's still your case and you still remain silent. What's the problem ? The cat got your tongue ? All the public have is a deciphered postscript from May 2022 - a rebuke to FBI's Dan Olson, who still behaves as a criminal. Speak up.
Sept 29, 2023 16:55:05 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: As Duane Davis is charged with the murder of Tupac Shakur, Las Vegas PD's sheriff becomes emotional when pointing out that Shakur's family have waited 27 years for justice. Double those 27 years ? 54 years, and still no Zodiac justice. A disgrace, CA DOJ.
Sept 29, 2023 16:28:41 GMT -8