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Post by Davb on Nov 21, 2016 10:32:15 GMT -8
He/ they could have been active military in Nam at the time ( on leave )
it was a 15-17 hour flight to and from San Francisco .
that makes it real hard for a police force looking for him in the US to find him
certain soldiers could get a states side 3 day pass easily
if they were of a higher rank and doing a dangerous job ...say like .. oh I don't know ... a master Sgt. door gunner in the 101st air cavalry , ...hey here's a coenky-dink many of them wore a black leather hood and bib /poncho like thing to not have the 10 brasses per second go down their shirt or hit them in the face in a gun fight ..the dark horse group for instance
That might explain why there seems to be two different people as the 1 Z killer. ( the main composite has dark irises as where the napa Z composite is drawn with Blue irises + looks totally different too)
of course anyone could have gotten their hands on the shoes a garage sale for instance , I remember those items going for a pretty penny back then
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Post by Ricardo on Nov 22, 2016 1:15:34 GMT -8
He/ they could have been active military in Nam at the time ( on leave ) it was a 15-17 hour flight to and from San Francisco . that makes it real hard for a police force looking for him in the US to find him certain soldiers could get a states side 3 day pass easily if they were of a higher rank and doing a dangerous job ...say like .. oh I don't know ... a master Sgt. door gunner in the 101st air cavalry , ...hey here's a coenky-dink many of them wore a black leather hood and bib /poncho like thing to not have the 10 brasses per second go down their shirt or hit them in the face in a gun fight ..the dark horse group for instance That might explain why there seems to be two different people as the 1 Z killer. ( the main composite has dark irises as where the napa Z composite is drawn with Blue irises + looks totally different too) of course anyone could have gotten their hands on the shoes a garage sale for instance , I remember those items going for a pretty penny back then There might be a correlation that when the troops began to return from Vietnam to the United States around 1971 or so, it was about the same time period when the Zodiac killer stopped sending communications. If the Zodiac killer was stateside beginning in 1971, then it would have been risky to commit any more murders. Maybe the Zodiac killer communications in 1974 coincided with visits abroad to elude investigation. |
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Nov 25, 2016 1:38:02 GMT -8
Since this thread has been created,to examine a possible Military connection,far be it from me to detract too far from the core focus.
If we accept that Law Enforcement,made a good fist of accounting for Military based personnel,in the vicinity [....and no doubt would have received assistance,from the Military,itself....],then it's really the transient and military related personnel,that might have ''slipped through the net'' [?].
Mare Island,naturally comes to mind,with a very active industry of ship building and fitting,during that late sixties period.Indeed,construction and fitment of Naval Submarines,represented a large portion of industrial work,carried out there.
But there were other major construction projects taking place,at the time.At Benicia,for example,Exxon had commissioned a new Oil Refinery,which was officially under construction,between 1967 and 1970.As well as local skilled workers,there would have been a sizable quantity of specialist outsiders,from both Construction,and Oil Industries,involved,for the duration of this commission.
And,precisely at the time of Zodiac's height of infamy.
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Post by Davb on Nov 25, 2016 13:05:34 GMT -8
He/ they could have been active military in Nam at the time ( on leave ) it was a 15-17 hour flight to and from San Francisco . that makes it real hard for a police force looking for him in the US to find him certain soldiers could get a states side 3 day pass easily if they were of a higher rank and doing a dangerous job ...say like .. oh I don't know ... a master Sgt. door gunner in the 101st air cavalry , ...hey here's a coenky-dink many of them wore a black leather hood and bib /poncho like thing to not have the 10 brasses per second go down their shirt or hit them in the face in a gun fight ..the dark horse group for instance That might explain why there seems to be two different people as the 1 Z killer. ( the main composite has dark irises as where the napa Z composite is drawn with Blue irises + looks totally different too) of course anyone could have gotten their hands on the shoes a garage sale for instance , I remember those items going for a pretty penny back then There might be a correlation that when the troops began to return from Vietnam to the United States around 1971 or so, it was about the same time period when the Zodiac killer stopped sending communications. If the Zodiac killer was stateside beginning in 1971, then it would have been risky to commit any more murders. Maybe the Zodiac killer communications in 1974 coincided with visits abroad to elude investigation. yes ground troops were all done by Feb . 72 most before that, but the air cavelry units continued till the end 75, but then nobody served nonstop in combat then a year or two off here and there ever hear of the -Phoenix Program- in Nam ? Wiki has a detailed account . my opinion but I say the Napa zodiac quit after The Lake Berryessa killing as the composite was spot on the same for the main composite . I was around in 69 and remember the main composite wanted poster, but ddin't see the napa one till 2010 If those sketches were close and I say they would be he could not have lived or grown up anywhere near Cal. |
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Post by Ricardo on Nov 25, 2016 18:57:38 GMT -8
ever hear of the -Phoenix Program- in Nam ? Wiki has a detailed account . You mentioned the Phoenix Program in connection with the possible military connection Please explain how the Phoenix Program could be related to the Zodiac killer. |
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Post by Davb on Nov 26, 2016 9:49:47 GMT -8
I do not have one , except air cavalary copter gunners rear door often wore a black leather hood (to protect them from sizzling hot brasses) and poncho just like the one described at the Napa crime scene .
I beleive Zodiac 's hood was made and used in Vietnam and he brought it back . ( searching images I found a gunner wearing one that looked just like the zodiacs )
and it sounds as some US copter crews were the transpo for this phoenix program early on or before it was even named and the rear gunner likely would have worn this hood so as not to be recognized later
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Nov 30, 2016 1:06:29 GMT -8
This idea of Zodiac's hood,at Lake Berryessa,being fashioned from the copter gunner's attire,in Vietnam,sounds as good as any,Davb.
Perhaps you could post a picture on this site [?].
Bryan Hartnell has given the public a good account,and no doubt LE,the best of himself,on this matter....but description is all ''we'' have.
What we know is,that Zodiac desired to mask himself,and carry out attacks on two innocents,with rigor.I think it likely that Zodiac's hood,would be made of something a bit more robust,than paper...as has been proffered,in the past [?].
Not least,the transportation of this hood to Lake Berryessa,and then carrying it to the picnic area - and then,putting it on.A paper hood would not be a sound decision,if one wanted to be sure that it stayed in one piece [?].
So,the possibility of Zodiac's hood being made of leather,is quite persuasive.
Zodiac may have got the idea,from a copter gunner's hood,and fashioned one acquired,including personalized logo [?].
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Post by Rubislaw32 on Dec 10, 2016 10:56:29 GMT -8
It has been observed in the past,by military historians and philosophers alike,that,in battle,it takes one genuinely brave man;one psychopath;and 98 soldiers in support,for a group of 100 fighting men to succeed.
Given that clinical psychologists place the incidence of psychopathy in men,as approximately three in one hundred,then one might be inclined to extrapolate,that a minority of psychopaths end up in a real war,where killing might be considered ''legitimate'' and required.
Law Enforcement,given that available evidence of both correspondence and physical crime,place Zodiac as a psychopathic killer,have been unable to expose him - not least,that they can confirm or deny that he was in the military.And yet,in terms of accountability,it would be easier for them to trace Zodiac,if he had been a military man.
What appears to be the case,is that we are dealing with a man of,at least average to tall height,who was ''burly'',and displayed natural physical strength.Not that he could be described as an athletic ''Jock'',and is believed to have displayed minor lower torso handicaps.In addition,visual impairments,that may well have involved,both near and far sighted problems.
Hardly likely to have ''sailed'' through a military ''physical'',then [?].But then,the military are still known to employ individuals,with special skills,even if not medically ''sound''.
Zodiac,in order to succeed in his nefarious antics,would have been aware of the planning and strategy required,and seeing as he was almost certainly ''above average'' in intelligence,would have appreciated that a somewhat ''military precision'' needed to be adopted.
But does that necessarily mean that he was actually in the military ? I think not.
Psychopaths tend to be very good ''copycats''.They seem to understand what is ''acceptable'' and ''plausible'' - then ''fall into line'',as part of the ''herd''.They are not really part of the human herd,since they lack the ''sympatico'' and humility of an average person.
What is sometimes overlooked is,that for all the bluster and bragging of Zodiac,he still carried out threats,in real terms.He could actually take someone's life.
And it remains a surprise to us,that,in all probability,no one actually trained him to do this.
All ''off his own bat'' - or was there a military connection ?
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Post by Davb on Jan 3, 2017 11:32:37 GMT -8
That circle on top of a circle with a circle around it was a symbol used in Vietnam War by GI, s taking inventory , used to say many or too many
I encountered it in 75 a vet
Told me this when I was doing a job he had done previously
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Post by Ricardo on Jan 3, 2017 12:58:55 GMT -8
That circle on top of a circle with a circle around it was a symbol used in Vietnam War by GI, s taking inventory , used to say many or too many I encountered it in 75 a vet Told me this when I was doing a job he had done previously Thanks for suggesting another possibility about the symbols used by the Zodiac killer. I would like to find any document showing the symbols used by GIs in Vietnam during the 1960s. It would be useful to compare the symbols used by GIs in Vietnam to the symbols used by the Zodiac killer, just as is being done with these cattle brands. |
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Post by Davb on Jan 3, 2017 19:42:09 GMT -8
This was at kitty clover potato chip Co K C in 75 the vet was a quartermaster over there
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Post by Ricardo on Jan 8, 2017 5:20:45 GMT -8
If the symbol was used by GIs in Vietnam before 1970, it could be the source. The Zodiac killer first used the symbol in the letter mailed on April 20, 1970.    |
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Post by Davb on Jan 8, 2017 9:55:50 GMT -8
I can give you the particular veterans website to ask , I contacted them once it's on my P C though
I wonder if that symbol was used to indicate the number of enemy casualties
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Post by Davb on Jan 8, 2017 13:45:58 GMT -8
darkhorsevietnam.org is one place to try this site will not let me copy the link www.darkhorsevietnam.org/photo-s-1965-1973ok now it did, might be a hooded gunner in there , I saw it on the web, but where exactly ? take a look here , does the skull look familiar? one patch has the mask as an emblem I swear I saw the Asian horse drawing like that emblem has while looking through images of the Mikado one time www.darkhorsevietnam.org/outcast |
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Post by Ricardo on Jan 9, 2017 0:18:05 GMT -8
Thanks for the links! It will take a while to go through the photos. Maybe there is a photo of someone wearing the mask which is shown on the emblem.  |
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