Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jun 2, 2015 16:58:08 GMT -8
I do believe Zodiac moved Paul's body to that position,after going through his pockets. The reason I believe that you don't see a lot of blood there, is that once the heart stops beating, it takes only about 12 seconds for the blood to slow down even stop coming out.
A lot of it was inside of the cab before he was moved.
I am curious,how you think Paul ended up that way?
You do know that everyone of the officers at the crime scene were checked for prints to make sure it was not one of them who left any of the prints right ?
Do I think the letter to Mary was a hoax ? No, I have a note from my suspect in cursive, that is a lot like that writing.
He writes like a female, very fancy , with curly-ques. Even when he wrote his name Zodiac in cursive on my car, the z had a curl at the beginning of it, like if you put a tiny c at the start of the z.
Close I guess to the one at the bottom of one of the Riverside letters, that people think is a fancy 2. I knew when I saw that it was a Z.
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Post by Zydeco on Jun 2, 2015 17:33:03 GMT -8
Oh my God, of course. How stupid of me. I just kept thinking I had to be wrong and so naturally looked for evidence that I am.
The attempt to preserve life obviously came first. But it never made sense that any professional would open a taxi door and just allow a victim to flop out onto the ground like that.
The positioning is very precise, like the Black Dahlia, and so many more. Sandy, did you notice what Leslie Harden said at the Task force meeting? Very few people know about a detail she mentioned. It's a forensics detail. Most people only know about the obvious part. Sorry to be obscure, but I think you'll know what I mean. Did you notice?
I don't want to say what it is, but could you maybe watch it again, if you have time? Methinks the lady may have slipped up.
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Post by Zydeco on Jun 2, 2015 19:01:14 GMT -8
Here is a written report on Pelissetti's report, if that makes sense. Reminds me of the 'Let's have a meeting to discuss the meeting we have next week.' Anyway, just for resource purpose if nothing else.... Click image to enlarge:
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Post by Zydeco on Jun 2, 2015 19:03:11 GMT -8
As the composite has (noticeably) blonde hair, I think this cannot be the brown-haired man Pelissetti saw.
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Post by rubislaw 32 on Jul 29, 2015 1:32:29 GMT -8
With respect to Paul Stine's execution,Sandy's assessed account appears to be ''spot on''.The perpetrator,sitting alongside Mr.Stine,turned to face his victim's profile,firing a single round from a handgun held in his right hand. The executioner,believed to have been Zodiac,had elected to sit in the front passenger seat,as opposed to the usual rear section of the cab - more than likely to put Mr.Stine at his ease,showing a readiness to converse with him,at close quarters. Here's ''the thing''....Police reports indicate that,the cab was ''airtight'',apart from Mr.Stine's window being one third open. Whatever so called firearms experts have claimed,and given ''Zodiac's'' proximity to Paul Stine,it is almost impossible to believe that the sudden release of sound waves from the handgun's discharge,would not have damaged the eardrums of ''Zodiac'' and Paul Stine.Naturally,of little consequence to the hapless Mr.Stine. Given that ''Zodiac'' is unlikely to have worn ear defenders of any description,there must have been consequences for him - perhaps permanent [?]. It is a wonder that ''Zodiac'' managed his post-execution chores,with disorientation and balance being probable extra factors [?].
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Aug 3, 2015 12:30:40 GMT -8
Thanks rubislaw32 for the compliment.
I have fired a nine mil. before and yes they are loud, but I do think there was a chance that Zodiac may have had a silencer that night, knowing how loud it was. He wouldn't want to draw too much attention to the gun shot in a neighborhood that wasn't use to hearing shots fired.
Remember that Mike Mageau thought Zodiac had a silencer on the other 9 mil he used on July 4th 1969.
I know that the teens across the street said that they didn't hear the gun shot, what was it then that drew them to the window if it wasn't the gun shot ? After all they were engaged in having a party and not looking outside at the view.
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Oct 24, 2015 19:32:43 GMT -8
WelchChappie's quote: If you ask the San Fran Police Dpt for a definitive answer I am sure the'll be happy to tell you. Just walk into the lobby of the SFPD HQ in DownTown San Francisco and ask the Desk Sgt on duty as you walk in can He be of assistance in helping you with a question relating to the Zodiac case? You'll either get arrested for using the word Zodiac in an official SFPD building, a felony offence under the assault and Battery criminal statute with this subsection stating the offence is committed when "The word/name 'ZODIAC/ZODIAC KILLER/THE ZODIAC or a combination of these words are used directly to, or in the presence of, a SFPD Officer which is assaulting His ego and battery upon the ears of the official.
I have to say that I must be very lucky not to have been arrested the many times that I have walked into not only SFPD and said the words Zodiac, but the many other police stations in Calif. I even carried the copy I made of the Lake Berryessa costume that was put in my car on Sept 28th or 29th 1969, into Napa PD. They became very excited when they saw it and thought it was the original ,I let them know that it was only a copy.
If Zodiac told the truth about going into the park a block and a half away, wouldn't that be the Spruce street entrance? If so, there happens to be a home there that has a back door entrance which is facing Julius Kahn play ground. It has a large window that Zodiac could have watched everything safely from.
KQ could have had two dogs, one at his home and the other at the ranch. He may have heard the police car sirens and stepped outside with his dog ,to see what it was all about? It could be that KQ came out of his home a second too late to see the other person who just walked past his home.
Most of the police action was in the opposite direction, therefore KQ missed seeing the killer. If he hadn't stepped outside that night, he would not be a suspect is what I truly believe.
He would never drive a car that had mismatched tires that were worn , like the car at Lake Berryessa Zodiac was driving that day.
Zodiac was smart enough to pretend to be a resident of Jackson Street, by walking up the steps towards the front door, knowing that police would never suspect anyone who could afford to live in that area as being a robber. Officer Zelm's told his wife that they did speak to a man on Jackson street. So which one of the officers actually stopped the Zodiac ?
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Post by WelshChappie on Oct 24, 2015 23:43:25 GMT -8
"If Zodiac told the truth about going into the park a block and a half away, wouldn't that be the Spruce street entrance?"
Nope, it would be the absolutely f'ing astonishing entrance. For someone to decide to ignore entering the grounds at the much closer and extremely conveniently situated entrance at Cherry St to instead walk down Jackson and wait until police stop and call Him over before He decides that now He knows Police are speeding toward the JK Park Via West Paicifc, now is the time to decide that this is where He want's to go also. He will not be left out if Inspectors Toschi & Armstrong are imminently about to play on the swings, He want's to play too.
I mean that is the brightest of all ideas really, anyone would rush to a place where the SFPD is going to completely surround and encircle you as a person trying to avoid detection. I can hear the thoughts running through the Zodiac's rather stupid head "Now that I have trapped myself here surrounded by Pigs and 5 dogs, I will attempt to foll everyone by holding a 3 leaf twig in front of me to impersonate a harmless tree. After all, there is little choice now that I have ran to the one place I know very well will entrap me and almost certainly see me discovered and at best arrested, at the worst shot trying to flee the swine. Chin Up Z, either way, you've controlled your own destiny and as such have ensured your own demise.
"The Police shall never catch me because I'm just as fuckin stupid as them. Me - Wondering through to West Pacific Ave SFPD - 8 Patrol Car's lining the roadside. (Unfortunately, Fouke and 9 of His Colleagues are running around the Presidio jumping behind one tree then front rolling it to another. Meanwhile, Zodiac has found a large bush to hide within that is now suspiciously working it's way toward the golf course while the burning bush of Presidio Heights declares ' Go to Pharaoh Toshhi and say"Thus says the lord thy Zodiac-Looney! Let thy people knowwwwwwwwwwwww." In a letter to the Editor how absolutely stupid everyone is.
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Post by WelshChappie on Oct 25, 2015 0:00:07 GMT -8
It is beyond counter intuitive and seems to have logic similar to this:
I am a recovering alcoholic and I am shaking like it's -20 C due to detoxing and I am desperate to have another drink. The most sensible and logical thing to now do is proceed to the Club down the street and sit at the bar where it will be far easier to not drink! What a bundle of intellectual success I am! I'll be smashed out my head within 90 minutes ejected by the door-staff for helping other customers consume their beers."
You know no offence is meant to yourself Sandy hun, but I can;t hear this absurd theory seemingly endorsed by intelligent people who don't seem to see it as not very likely to have Zodiac know SFPD are meters away in the presidio and lining up on West Pacific and as a result think to Himself:
"Now I shall burst through the entrance of Maple onto WP Avenue, whereupon I shall charge straight at any and all Blue Meanies present while I extend my arm in front of me with a 9mm at the end of it and, doing this, nothing will happen as a result."
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Oct 26, 2015 9:57:13 GMT -8
I don't take offence WC, but as we all know Zodiac was last seen much closer to Maple than Cherry on Jackson street. If he was telling the truth that he was stopped by the officers, he got them to go in the "opposite" direction, so they were going "away" from the direction that he was going. He needed them to go as far away from where he was headed, there by pointing them in the opposite direction. He told them he saw a man with a gun heading west on Jackson st, while he was walking east on the north side of the street. I see it as a "brilliant" stunt to get them to go away from where he was going. AP was coming around the corner from Cherry onto Jackson when he saw Folkes and Zelms, I believe it was at point that they were told the suspect was white. AP drove that way because he was told that was the way the suspect was last seen going.
We know that Zodiac didn't go into the park at Cherry st, because one of the teens followed him and saw him going up Jackson. The officers who believe they saw the suspect, didn't say he was on Cherry st headed into the park there, they saw him on Jackson headed east. Folkes said he last saw the suspect close to "Maple". These are the facts not some assumption I made up because it was what I felt took place. I have walked that same walk with Ricardo more than once, we went by what the police reports told us, which was walk north on Cherry to Jackson turn right on Jackson and go towards Maple. The only assumption I make is that if he walked towards the park at Maple, he could have gone one more block either on Pacific Ave towards Spruce to the back door of an apt that faced the playground, where the police eventually went minutes later. Zodiac had plenty of time do to that, with the police looking in the opposite direction at that time. Zodiac did not send them in the same direction as he was fleeing, that would be foolish. It took several minutes for all the police to gather the dogs and be on their way, plenty of time for Zodiac to go into the apt that I believe he went to and watch as the playground became the focal point of the hunt for the killer.
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Post by WelshChappie on Oct 27, 2015 6:17:08 GMT -8
I don't take offence WC, but as we all know Zodiac was last seen much closer to Maple than Cherry on Jackson street. If he was telling the truth that he was stopped by the officers, he got them to go in the "opposite" direction, so they were going "away" from the direction that he was going. He needed them to go as far away from where he was headed, there by pointing them in the opposite direction. He told them he saw a man with a gun heading west on Jackson st, while he was walking east on the north side of the street. I see it as a "brilliant" stunt to get them to go away from where he was going. AP was coming around the corner from Cherry onto Jackson when he saw Folkes and Zelms, I believe it was at point that they were told the suspect was white. AP drove that way because he was told that was the way the suspect was last seen going. We know that Zodiac didn't go into the park at Cherry st, because one of the teens followed him and saw him going up Jackson. The officers who believe they saw the suspect, didn't say he was on Cherry st headed into the park there, they saw him on Jackson headed east. Folkes said he last saw the suspect close to "Maple". These are the facts not some assumption I made up because it was what I felt took place. I have walked that same walk with Ricardo more than once, we went by what the police reports told us, which was walk north on Cherry to Jackson turn right on Jackson and go towards Maple. The only assumption I make is that if he walked towards the park at Maple, he could have gone one more block either on Pacific Ave towards Spruce to the back door of an apt that faced the playground, where the police eventually went minutes later. Zodiac had plenty of time do to that, with the police looking in the opposite direction at that time. Zodiac did not send them in the same direction as he was fleeing, that would be foolish. It took several minutes for all the police to gather the dogs and be on their way, plenty of time for Zodiac to go into the apt that I believe he went to and watch as the playground became the focal point of the hunt for the killer. In Fouke's initial statement, on camera here in the link, He said: Press play and the clip will automatically begin at the relevant interview with Fouke... Now, Don states here He had proceeded to Arguello Blvd, then upon arrival, went right turning passed the golf course and onto West Pacific. Armond, and several documentaries have stated that what Zodiac actually told Don specifically was: "Yes, a man just ran INTO THE PRESIDIO" Now, when u consider this as the statement issued byb Zodiac of someone running into the Presidio then you have your answer as to why Don Fouke sped off up street to Arguello and around to the Presidio. Zodiac, remember, tells us He watched the squad car go to the hilltop and, quote "went around the corner as I had directed them' which, in the above linked interview, Fouke seems to confirm that is exactly what He did. So my question is now this: Given Zodiac is still standing on Jackson street at the moment Fouke turns onto West Pacific, How the hell does this man now go down Maple, through the entrance and onto West Pacific Avenue & into this General Presidio area without these cops seeing him? My own belief is that it is not possible!
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Oct 27, 2015 8:15:14 GMT -8
I absolutely believe that is true, because he was not in the park or near it, by then he was inside of a home, no dog can smell a person on the run inside of a home.
Had they done the search correctly and put some of Stine's blood under the noses of those dogs, the dogs would then be able to "follow a sent" perhaps to the door of that house. But unfortunately they did not do that, so the dogs looked aimlessly in the park for someone who was not there.
If Zodiac took off in a car as some believe, there should have been at least one person who saw him do that, but because there wasn't, even though by then people were looking out of their windows.
I feel confident that Zodiac was watching everything from one of those windows facing Pacific Ave, that is the only explanation as to how he was able to describe what he saw going on. And yes it is true the Zodiac did lie about being in the park , he wasn't about to say that he watching everything from inside of a apt in a home which had windows facing the park.
I doubt that even if the dogs went to that back door that faced the park, the police were looking for a robber not the Zodiac, they would not think that a robber was living in one of those homes. Zodiac knew that ahead of time, I am pretty sure of that.
We will just have agree to disagree on this one WC.
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Post by Ricardo on Feb 29, 2016 1:29:14 GMT -8
A brain injury would explain everything that seems unexplainable as to why Zodiac may have did the things he did, and react the way he reacted. In 2014 there was a study which was published in the Journal of Violent and Aggressive Behaviour which suggested that serial killers often had a combination of Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), head trauma, and other psychological stress. What causes people to commit mass murder? www.independent.co.uk/news/science/what-causes-people-to-commit-mass-murder-9402791.html
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Post by WelshChappie on Mar 3, 2016 12:47:12 GMT -8
This being the topic is quite coincidental as only a ew hours ago I posted this over at Richard's site....
"I suppose my over-all point is Rich, I don't believe this case is unsolved today because Z decided to retire from His addiction and seeming need to needle the pigs and make the newspapers and made the decision the day before declaring He will no longer be writing to the press after growing rather angry with police because they were nasty & telling lies. I don't believe Rich that on Oct 11th, not One, not Two even, BUT THREE cops bumped into a man within stone throw distance of a murder that literally has minutes ago occurred and all three can't tell us who that man is today because all three of them in two separate incidents respectively failed to do the most basic 'Must' in police procedure and get His name. If someone told me One single cop had done that I would be struggling to believe it and think 'surely a trained law officer can't be that incompetent.' But THREE?? Not having any of it mate and for me personally, they know more than they are willing to tell you and I. I know it's instinctual to want to instantly think there is no way police would not go arrest Him if they knew His identity, and surely it would be leaked if the Dpt. were covering up knowing His identity? It won't be the Dpt. that know, just one or two at the very top of the chain plus Fouke who, sadly for Him, is the one who they've left out to dangle and tie Himself in knots with lies, version discrepancies and at odds with other cops who claim Fouke told them something He denies publically.
Captain Ken Narlow, Napa PD: "I Often wonder just how close we've come to Him at times. We must have been close to Him at least Once!"
Oh now Kenneth you are absolutely correct, you see we know the phrase 'Within touching distance' usually is hypothetical and is to be taken as such when used to describe something... Not here it's not, I literally mean they could have extended their arm, reached out and took hold of Him by the regular flap down collar.
No, don't even go there Ken because your about to ask knowing this previous comment 'Well, what is His name?' because you are going to simply assume that they secured it as the most basic and essential thing to do in such a situation, but sadly they forgot to ask Him. And when I say 'They' Ken I do so because Three cops forgot to ask The man His name.....A man less than one block away.....one block away from a homicide.......a homicide that has just minutes ago been occurred."
Before Ken could tell me He doesn't believe that sort of Gross incompetence is at such a level that He doesn't think it possible to even happen, I would tell Ken:
"T'all started See Ken with the reporting party looking directly at a clear White Male outside the cab and, after getting confused, told the dispatcher that the person He is looking at as He is speaking is that word that is so similar to White it can and often does get confused with it, this word being: Black. Don't look at me like that Ken, like as if I am making this up, this is all true and checkable and you have to believe it Ken because the people saying it have a police hat on."
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on May 15, 2016 15:49:21 GMT -8
Don saw someone coming down Jax street who He said later was similar in appearance to the composite drawing however, the man was actually older and heavier in appearence. Based on Fouke's recollection, the Jackson St shuffler looked something like this: And the man in the area who mr Pelissetti spoke with is this man, Kjell Qvale, picture of Kjell below from 1971.... Obviously they look nothing alike at all apart from the fact they clearly do! Yes they do, the SFPD composite above is a bit distorted , the Zodiac's face was not that long looking in the real composite. Wasn't Kjell taller than the 5ft 8 man they saw?
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