Post by WelshChappie on Jun 2, 2014 6:39:07 GMT -8
As you probably know if you followed my posts over the previous few months on Morf's website that other than Kane, the suspect that I believe most likely to be Zodiac, is Kjell. Here's just one more circumstantial piece of evidence I discovered recently:
This is Kjell's brother, Bjarne Qvale, demonstrating his ability to conduct a wheel change in three minutes. Note the registration/Tag number!
Another possibility is that the brothers could have met whoever was the Zodiac killer at some time in their lives because they lived in San Francisco circa 1969.
The Zodiac killer visited Presidio Heights in San Francisco.
They would have known many car mechanics, too.
Funny you should say that Rick (May I call you Rick?) because I long wondered if Kjell was out in the street that night because he was waiting to meet his Brother, the Brother who had taken a Taxi from The Theatre District and was due to arrive any moment now at Maple Street. Kjell may have been initially surprised and slightly confused when his brother came down Jackson from the direction of Cherry and not, as was planned, via Maple. Maybe that is why Zodiac ignored the far more convenient and quicker Presidio escape entrance at Cherry & Jackson Intersection because he knew his Brother was waiting for him on Maple near Washington and simply had to remain on that street to meet up with him.
Maybe Fouke and/or Armond did, as Armond freely admits he did speak to a man on or near Maple Street that night (albeit stopping short of publically naming Kjell as the man in question, but privately telling several people in confidence) and, maybe Armond is being truthful when he says he saw Kjell who, as Armond points out, was 'A whole lot thinner than the description I had and he had absolutely no blood on his clothes.' Well, that would be correct if he's there waiting for his much stockier sibling with the blood soaked Navy Blue Zipper Jacket and Pleated Pants.
I am also 99.9% sure that the White Male that Don Fouke encounters was also Kjell, or if it were his Bother Bjarne that was The active killer Zodiac with Kjell being the Active Zodiac Letter writer, then either way, I believe Don knows that he saw 'A' Qvale out there that evening and that is the real reason he allowed him on his way and not, as they like to claim, because some backwards dispatcher who hears "White Male" and isn't able to interpret this information correctly and gives it out as "Black Male." Don Fouke, in my opinion, knew beyond any doubt that the suspect he was on the lookout for was a White Male Adult and that was why he initially pulls up and also called him over to the patrol car. Don denies speaking to any white guy anywhere at all but let's be fair and realistic, should we expect him to after finding out just who it was that was on Jackson Street that night? Is he really going to now give an on screen interview saying "Ohh yes, not only did I have the most wanted man in California within 6 feet of me that night but I also pulled up and had a pleasant chat with the guy who was very eager to help me out by pointing up toward Cherry Street and telling me he'd just seconds ago seen an armed man sprint by with a gun and I thanked him for being so helpful and sped off uphill chasing shadows."
Oh and there of-course there is also the small matter of Bjarne Qvale being born in 1924 as the 3 x 8 = 24 of the 'My Name Is' Cipher has within it's one line of coded message and it also just so happens that Bjarne's Father's birthday was none other than....... Sept 27th.
You have an interesting theory if it could have been more than one person involved with the Zodiac murders.
By the way, how do we know that only one passenger was in the taxi with Paul Stine?
I would like to know what the man was doing on Maple Street that night.
Was he walking a dog? (Or was that someone else?)
And I would like to know if he saw anyone else that night.
Why would Fouke allow him on his way?
Well Armond Pelissetti was asked over the phone once by Michael Butterfield to recount the events of that night one more time for him over the phone and i'll para-phrase what Armond told Butterfield. He said "Well, there was a very small window of time here. When I got down to Jackson and Maple Intersection there was this guy on a driveway to a house. He didn't have a dog and wasn't doing anything but just standing there on the drive. I spoke to him and kept him around for a while."
Now this version was 'accidentally recorded' over the phone so there must be a recording of Armond admitting this although I personally have not heard it myself. This version would also make much more sense as ringing true because Don Fouke says that when he saw a white male in that very same location the white male turned onto an entrance way of a house. That's why I say I believe that the man seen by Fouke was also Kjell Qvale because the man Armond see's who he claims publically was walking his dog, but admits privately was actually standing alone on a driveway, was Kjell Qvale. And Armond does not mention seeing the same White Male that Fouke does even though he's in the same place within a mminute of so of Fouke being there, the same going for Fouke not mentioning seeing any White Male walking a dog at the intersection within a minute of Armond claiming seeing him there and the answer to this for me is simple: They both saw the same guy!
Post by WelshChappie on Jun 6, 2014 6:41:50 GMT -8
"By the way, how do we know that only one passenger was in the taxi with Paul Stine?"
You know Rick until you asked that question, I hadn't ever even given that idea any thought at all but that is, in my opinion, a really good question/point. I suspect that many would dismiss the possibility of two passengers accompanying Paul to his 'Final Destination' by pointing to the fact that the witnesses who saw the offender at the scene even while he's still in the cab, only ever saw one man. But like myself Rick, would it be fair to say that you like to 'think outside the box?' That is intended as a compliment because it can only be a good thing to look at something from a new and unique perspective. So I totally think you raise a great point here, how do we know that there wasn't two passengers? How can we be sure that Paul wasn't murdered at Washington & Maple Intersection and one of the offenders exited the cab there at that spot leaving the second to drive the cab to the next block at Cherry Street? After all, it's true to say the witnesses only ever saw one suspect yes, but it's also a fact that when asked about possibly hearing the shot fired that night right outside their house that killed Stine, they all gave the same reply saying that none of them heard any shot fired, or anything sounding like the report of a shot fired at all. Well that could be due to the offender possible using a silencer, or it could also be due to there having never been a shot fired at Washington & Cherry streets for them to have heard it because Paul was not shot there but actually at the previous block at Maple.
Concealing a 9mm or any handgun is pretty straight-forward and easily done, you just stick it in you pocket, under your jacket, down the waist-band etc. However, to conceal a pistol that has a silencer attached to it's barrel is not going to be as easy and you can't just stick it in your side pocket anymore. As we know, Kjell was on or near Maple street just standing there on a driveway if you believe Butterfields claims of the version as given to him over the phone by first responder on scene that night, Armond Pelissetti. Maybe Kjell was in the cab, and maybe he did get out at Maple street and maybe an accomplice, his brother Bjarne maybe, drove the cab a block further to Cherry and Kjell was hanging around Maple Street waiting to meet back up with his co-conspirator.
I am not saying that is necessarily what I now believe to be the way it happened, but I am saying I wouldn't dismiss the possibility!
Pelissetti told Butterfield in 2005 that he stopped a Qvale in a driveway "near Wash and Maple." There are no driveways on Maple Street from Jackson to Washington. So was he on Washington? He said he would speak to Qvale and then someone else would walk by. Pelissetti would walk away from KQ and speak to that other person for a minute or two and then keep coming back to KQ. Why did he do this if KQ was a witness who had not witnessed anything? KQ had a dog with him as goes the story.
On the DVD, he says he turned the corner from Jackson and ran into KQ. That is not near Washington St. and there is no driveway there.
I have no idea if Butterfield tapes his interviews or not.
In an interview that is definitely on tape, Pelisetti told another researcher in about 2011 that he first spotted KQ with his dog in his own front yard!
The story keeps changing so drastically! Why? Richard Walter believes that it is because it is not the truth, so details keep getting mixed up. AP can't keep his story straight!
Just keeping the discussion the rails, fact-wise.
As for the license plate, that is a good catch. I had never noticed that and I've had the 1949 article for many years.
I meant to say he stopped Kjell Qvale, not "a Qvale." It was not some other Qvale he spoke to.
It is interesting that you are focusing in on Bjarne of the other three brothers. He is the one I've looked at the closest, too. If you look in the "408" (LOL!) in a place analogous to where KQ's initials are (second line from bottom, character 13, you will see "BQ" going up to line 3 from the bottom, with an "F" next to it. That gives "BFQ," or Bjarne's monogram. KQ's initials are on line two from the beginning of the code going down to line 3, character #13. When solved, KQ=SF, or "KQ from San Francisco." KQ also said of Bjarne that he was the one brother he never had a disagreement with. Useful in a "folie a deux" situation.
There are other reasons Bjarne interests me but I'll leave it at that for now.
Post by WelshChappie on Jun 20, 2014 13:50:30 GMT -8
Hey Mike, thanks for clarifying. And I am aware that Armond is said to have stated privately that Kjell was actually on a driveway at or on Maple street and I know that no such drive exists on Maple. I think it's only logical to assume that the driveway at Maple that Armond speaks of is the same one that Fouke recalls seeing the White Male turn onto and that's the drive that is at the Maple Street intersection, but isn't on Maple itself, but actually on Jackson.
Whatever the specifics or actual detail regarding the specific driveway or on which street etc, that's all irrelevant in my humble opinion because the question that takes precedence over any other is: Why is Armond lying about Kjell being out walking a dog if he actually saw him standing in a driveway? What possible reason could a serving police officer have to lie about where it was he saw a prominent man that night and claim he was innocently out walking a dog if he was not?
Post by WelshChappie on Jun 20, 2014 14:10:18 GMT -8
Mike, you said: "In an interview that is definitely on tape, Pelisetti told another researcher in about 2011 that he first spotted KQ with his dog in his own front yard."
Well if this third version of the story is true, then this means Armond would not have only gone as far as the Jackson and Maple intersection, but actually went at least a half block further because Kjell's home was 3636 Jackson, which is the other side of the intersection if your coming down the Jackson Hill from Cherry.
I don't believe this account either because I don't believe that Kjell ever had a dog with him. My reasons for that? An article I came across a few months ago from an old newspaper that was published back in the 70's. In this article, Kjell is pictured on his ranch with his horses and dog. The article specifically states that the ranch is owned by Kjell Qvale, which is home to his numerous horses and DOG. So while Kjell did have a dog, it was kept at his ranch and not at his multi-million dollar mansion in Pacific Heights.
Armond is simply introducing a K-9 to the situation in order to bat away any suspicion befalling Kjell because if he were to say he came across Mr Kjell Qvale standing on a driveway that was not attached to his own home but was actually a few doors up at the Maple & Jackson Intersects then many people would require Kjell to explain why he was around the corner from a murder scene within minutes of the crime occurring acting highly suspicious by lurking out of sight on the darkened driveway of 3712 when he lives at 3636.
Your comments about there not being a dog are reminiscent of a series of frustrating emails I received in 2007 right around the time the movie came out. A guy calling himself "Bob" and claiming to be a friend of AP contacted me and his first email was just this, "There was no dog." This guy was very skittish. I was never able to establish his credibility. He was afraid of Pelissetti, so he agonized over ocming forward and not coming forward. The consensus among my friends was that he was a phony but my gut told me that if he was faking the fear that he had, he was a world class con man or actor. Very convincing.
Come to think of it, maybe KQ was admitting as much to me when he said in our 2006 meeting that he "only walked a dog twice in his life."
To clarify, AP said to Butterfield that he saw KQ standing in the driveway with his dog. He was "walking" the dog but standing still at the time. Your theory about him waiting for someone to come down Maple is interesting. Never thought of it that way. Plans did go awry that night. The quickest route to 3636 was from Maple and Wash downhill to the home, obviously not from Cherry. But sh*t happened!
Rubislaw32: Black Power salute. Another example is Rock n' Roll legend Jerry Lee Lewis who introduced his 13-year old bride to the British press (1958). A third is the case of FBI Director James Comey, who offered the Crown Office the stolen casefile of Joan Webster.
Dec 7, 2023 2:29:46 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: There are certain things the US establishment will never forgive of their own citizens. One of which is embarrassing their nation (USA) when overseas. One example is US Olympic 200 metres champion Tommie Smith at the 1968 Mexico Olympics, who gave the...
Dec 7, 2023 2:25:28 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Moreover, a misconception that Donald Trump played Brutus to Comey's Caesar. No, no, no... Brutus was US Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein - Trump's ''Mr Peeps'', who had been parachuted in by US Attorney General Jeff Sessions - specially for the job.
Dec 7, 2023 1:33:38 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Perhaps I should point out (?) that the most influential agency in this whole sorry Z-tale is the US DOJ, with over 100,000 employees, run by the US Deputy Attorney General. But, everyone is capable of failing to reach further than they are able to grasp.
Dec 7, 2023 1:13:51 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: going to put away their childish and Z-case-defeating games or not, will decide for me what I elect to do myself (as a law-abiding citizen). And, if it means naming further players in both LE and politics, then that will happen also. LE, QUIT effing about.
Dec 6, 2023 19:38:59 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: A guest has made the astute observation that if the Zodiac dies, without having been brought to justice - then the FBI could freely continue to paint the Zodiac's (false) narrative. Well, once I know whether US DOJ, MA DOJ and Crown Office are actually....
Dec 6, 2023 19:32:44 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: It's difficult to assess whether William Grant was aware that he had been rumbled for his Z-fatherhood. Lafferty was given special dispensation to know that Grant had ''failed'' a Zodiac DNA match. But, allowed to disclose this, once Grant became deceased.
Dec 6, 2023 18:23:03 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: From Grant Thornton, forensic accountant: ''Time markers mutating aside, a father and son will have the exact same Y Chromosomes.''. For the other 50% of a son's DNA, these X Chromosomes are inherited from a son's mother. CA DOJ's W J Grant Z-bombshell ?
Dec 6, 2023 17:01:04 GMT -8
Rub--law32: For the Zodiac case, we should all be in ''Pam's corner'' regardless of anything else. And right now, it is CA DOJ and loyal CA PD's who are showing themselves up as wanting what is right and proper. As for the rest ? There is much that leaves desiring.
Dec 5, 2023 18:10:49 GMT -8
Rub--law32: One can't expect much from outfits as FBI in this life. And, it is to Richard Nixon's credit that he was turned down. But the judiciary ? Talk about ideas above their station. Probably compare themselves with brain surgeons as important people ? Think on.
Dec 5, 2023 17:38:42 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: ''Does that mean that Zodiac's and Grant's DNA is 40% identical ? '' . Yes Lyndon, and you can add another ten percent besides. The imperfect, eccentric and noblest of gentlemen, Lyndon Lafferty. You were the greatest and most tenacious bloodhound of all.
Dec 5, 2023 16:47:14 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Superb ? As a consequence, 81 year old Kit Harrisson was found guilty of Brenda's murder, July 14th 1978. From re-investigation to conviction this year, it had taken 8 years of hard work. Harrisson's mistake ? Masturbating beside Brenda, after killing her.
Dec 5, 2023 7:49:30 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Scottish residences for Z ? Although tenuous to some, The Scotch Tape Letter alluded to Brenda Page, 5 days following her brutal murder in Aberdeen. The ''facts'' are that Z's main motivation was to humiliate Dave Toschi with the letter. Mistake for Z.
Dec 5, 2023 7:43:23 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: And yes, the unsaid is likely the case: The ring-fenced 5 Bay area murders have always presented difficulties for a conviction with confidence. Comey ''ruined'' Joan Webster's case - so Emma's case might be the only chance left to secure a Z-conviction.
Dec 5, 2023 6:23:38 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: But, as I have made the point to a guest: ''You have to have the evidence.'' - a convenience Catch 22: He's not Zodiac without convicted of being so. Originally, Mulholland was juggling BOTH Z and Pan Am Lockerbie. The latter prioritizing the former, now.
Dec 5, 2023 5:53:01 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Barged ? Well, time has moved on and a fresh conviction for Pan Am Lockerbie beckons. Emma's case is being fobbed off with a false solve (inferred), because it's in the way. A high chance it is Z's last one, and that he is still alive, residing on UK soil.
Dec 5, 2023 5:37:42 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: More particularly, the times Z spent near Inverness, Aberdeen & Glasgow respectively. At least that was the justification for David Cameron originally financing Frank Mulholland, anyway. But, appears like Emma is being barged by Pan Am Lockerbie, now.
Dec 5, 2023 5:24:06 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: the scandal was barely UK national news, as Comey's dismissal became ''World news''. A serious point is, that Crown Office solved Brenda Page & Renee MacRae (and hoped to solve Emma Caldwell), based on Z's residences in various parts of Scotland.
Dec 5, 2023 5:15:54 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: One could look at the Zodiac case from a UK perspective, in the last 9 years: The dismissal of James Comey became a consequence of what started as ''The Police Scotland Spying Scandal''. But, so few knew the reality, even in law enforcement circles, that..
Dec 5, 2023 5:10:24 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: The reality for Dave is, that he now exists to perpetuate the myth of an honest solve - if only to spare his own blushes. Or, until ordered otherwise - or even arrested by legitimate LE agencies involved in the case. Defeating the ends of justice, Dave O.
Dec 4, 2023 11:46:23 GMT -8