Post by WelshChappie on Jun 2, 2014 6:39:07 GMT -8
As you probably know if you followed my posts over the previous few months on Morf's website that other than Kane, the suspect that I believe most likely to be Zodiac, is Kjell. Here's just one more circumstantial piece of evidence I discovered recently:
This is Kjell's brother, Bjarne Qvale, demonstrating his ability to conduct a wheel change in three minutes. Note the registration/Tag number!
Another possibility is that the brothers could have met whoever was the Zodiac killer at some time in their lives because they lived in San Francisco circa 1969.
The Zodiac killer visited Presidio Heights in San Francisco.
They would have known many car mechanics, too.
Funny you should say that Rick (May I call you Rick?) because I long wondered if Kjell was out in the street that night because he was waiting to meet his Brother, the Brother who had taken a Taxi from The Theatre District and was due to arrive any moment now at Maple Street. Kjell may have been initially surprised and slightly confused when his brother came down Jackson from the direction of Cherry and not, as was planned, via Maple. Maybe that is why Zodiac ignored the far more convenient and quicker Presidio escape entrance at Cherry & Jackson Intersection because he knew his Brother was waiting for him on Maple near Washington and simply had to remain on that street to meet up with him.
Maybe Fouke and/or Armond did, as Armond freely admits he did speak to a man on or near Maple Street that night (albeit stopping short of publically naming Kjell as the man in question, but privately telling several people in confidence) and, maybe Armond is being truthful when he says he saw Kjell who, as Armond points out, was 'A whole lot thinner than the description I had and he had absolutely no blood on his clothes.' Well, that would be correct if he's there waiting for his much stockier sibling with the blood soaked Navy Blue Zipper Jacket and Pleated Pants.
I am also 99.9% sure that the White Male that Don Fouke encounters was also Kjell, or if it were his Bother Bjarne that was The active killer Zodiac with Kjell being the Active Zodiac Letter writer, then either way, I believe Don knows that he saw 'A' Qvale out there that evening and that is the real reason he allowed him on his way and not, as they like to claim, because some backwards dispatcher who hears "White Male" and isn't able to interpret this information correctly and gives it out as "Black Male." Don Fouke, in my opinion, knew beyond any doubt that the suspect he was on the lookout for was a White Male Adult and that was why he initially pulls up and also called him over to the patrol car. Don denies speaking to any white guy anywhere at all but let's be fair and realistic, should we expect him to after finding out just who it was that was on Jackson Street that night? Is he really going to now give an on screen interview saying "Ohh yes, not only did I have the most wanted man in California within 6 feet of me that night but I also pulled up and had a pleasant chat with the guy who was very eager to help me out by pointing up toward Cherry Street and telling me he'd just seconds ago seen an armed man sprint by with a gun and I thanked him for being so helpful and sped off uphill chasing shadows."
Oh and there of-course there is also the small matter of Bjarne Qvale being born in 1924 as the 3 x 8 = 24 of the 'My Name Is' Cipher has within it's one line of coded message and it also just so happens that Bjarne's Father's birthday was none other than....... Sept 27th.
You have an interesting theory if it could have been more than one person involved with the Zodiac murders.
By the way, how do we know that only one passenger was in the taxi with Paul Stine?
I would like to know what the man was doing on Maple Street that night.
Was he walking a dog? (Or was that someone else?)
And I would like to know if he saw anyone else that night.
Why would Fouke allow him on his way?
Well Armond Pelissetti was asked over the phone once by Michael Butterfield to recount the events of that night one more time for him over the phone and i'll para-phrase what Armond told Butterfield. He said "Well, there was a very small window of time here. When I got down to Jackson and Maple Intersection there was this guy on a driveway to a house. He didn't have a dog and wasn't doing anything but just standing there on the drive. I spoke to him and kept him around for a while."
Now this version was 'accidentally recorded' over the phone so there must be a recording of Armond admitting this although I personally have not heard it myself. This version would also make much more sense as ringing true because Don Fouke says that when he saw a white male in that very same location the white male turned onto an entrance way of a house. That's why I say I believe that the man seen by Fouke was also Kjell Qvale because the man Armond see's who he claims publically was walking his dog, but admits privately was actually standing alone on a driveway, was Kjell Qvale. And Armond does not mention seeing the same White Male that Fouke does even though he's in the same place within a mminute of so of Fouke being there, the same going for Fouke not mentioning seeing any White Male walking a dog at the intersection within a minute of Armond claiming seeing him there and the answer to this for me is simple: They both saw the same guy!
Post by WelshChappie on Jun 6, 2014 6:41:50 GMT -8
"By the way, how do we know that only one passenger was in the taxi with Paul Stine?"
You know Rick until you asked that question, I hadn't ever even given that idea any thought at all but that is, in my opinion, a really good question/point. I suspect that many would dismiss the possibility of two passengers accompanying Paul to his 'Final Destination' by pointing to the fact that the witnesses who saw the offender at the scene even while he's still in the cab, only ever saw one man. But like myself Rick, would it be fair to say that you like to 'think outside the box?' That is intended as a compliment because it can only be a good thing to look at something from a new and unique perspective. So I totally think you raise a great point here, how do we know that there wasn't two passengers? How can we be sure that Paul wasn't murdered at Washington & Maple Intersection and one of the offenders exited the cab there at that spot leaving the second to drive the cab to the next block at Cherry Street? After all, it's true to say the witnesses only ever saw one suspect yes, but it's also a fact that when asked about possibly hearing the shot fired that night right outside their house that killed Stine, they all gave the same reply saying that none of them heard any shot fired, or anything sounding like the report of a shot fired at all. Well that could be due to the offender possible using a silencer, or it could also be due to there having never been a shot fired at Washington & Cherry streets for them to have heard it because Paul was not shot there but actually at the previous block at Maple.
Concealing a 9mm or any handgun is pretty straight-forward and easily done, you just stick it in you pocket, under your jacket, down the waist-band etc. However, to conceal a pistol that has a silencer attached to it's barrel is not going to be as easy and you can't just stick it in your side pocket anymore. As we know, Kjell was on or near Maple street just standing there on a driveway if you believe Butterfields claims of the version as given to him over the phone by first responder on scene that night, Armond Pelissetti. Maybe Kjell was in the cab, and maybe he did get out at Maple street and maybe an accomplice, his brother Bjarne maybe, drove the cab a block further to Cherry and Kjell was hanging around Maple Street waiting to meet back up with his co-conspirator.
I am not saying that is necessarily what I now believe to be the way it happened, but I am saying I wouldn't dismiss the possibility!
Pelissetti told Butterfield in 2005 that he stopped a Qvale in a driveway "near Wash and Maple." There are no driveways on Maple Street from Jackson to Washington. So was he on Washington? He said he would speak to Qvale and then someone else would walk by. Pelissetti would walk away from KQ and speak to that other person for a minute or two and then keep coming back to KQ. Why did he do this if KQ was a witness who had not witnessed anything? KQ had a dog with him as goes the story.
On the DVD, he says he turned the corner from Jackson and ran into KQ. That is not near Washington St. and there is no driveway there.
I have no idea if Butterfield tapes his interviews or not.
In an interview that is definitely on tape, Pelisetti told another researcher in about 2011 that he first spotted KQ with his dog in his own front yard!
The story keeps changing so drastically! Why? Richard Walter believes that it is because it is not the truth, so details keep getting mixed up. AP can't keep his story straight!
Just keeping the discussion the rails, fact-wise.
As for the license plate, that is a good catch. I had never noticed that and I've had the 1949 article for many years.
I meant to say he stopped Kjell Qvale, not "a Qvale." It was not some other Qvale he spoke to.
It is interesting that you are focusing in on Bjarne of the other three brothers. He is the one I've looked at the closest, too. If you look in the "408" (LOL!) in a place analogous to where KQ's initials are (second line from bottom, character 13, you will see "BQ" going up to line 3 from the bottom, with an "F" next to it. That gives "BFQ," or Bjarne's monogram. KQ's initials are on line two from the beginning of the code going down to line 3, character #13. When solved, KQ=SF, or "KQ from San Francisco." KQ also said of Bjarne that he was the one brother he never had a disagreement with. Useful in a "folie a deux" situation.
There are other reasons Bjarne interests me but I'll leave it at that for now.
Post by WelshChappie on Jun 20, 2014 13:50:30 GMT -8
Hey Mike, thanks for clarifying. And I am aware that Armond is said to have stated privately that Kjell was actually on a driveway at or on Maple street and I know that no such drive exists on Maple. I think it's only logical to assume that the driveway at Maple that Armond speaks of is the same one that Fouke recalls seeing the White Male turn onto and that's the drive that is at the Maple Street intersection, but isn't on Maple itself, but actually on Jackson.
Whatever the specifics or actual detail regarding the specific driveway or on which street etc, that's all irrelevant in my humble opinion because the question that takes precedence over any other is: Why is Armond lying about Kjell being out walking a dog if he actually saw him standing in a driveway? What possible reason could a serving police officer have to lie about where it was he saw a prominent man that night and claim he was innocently out walking a dog if he was not?
Post by WelshChappie on Jun 20, 2014 14:10:18 GMT -8
Mike, you said: "In an interview that is definitely on tape, Pelisetti told another researcher in about 2011 that he first spotted KQ with his dog in his own front yard."
Well if this third version of the story is true, then this means Armond would not have only gone as far as the Jackson and Maple intersection, but actually went at least a half block further because Kjell's home was 3636 Jackson, which is the other side of the intersection if your coming down the Jackson Hill from Cherry.
I don't believe this account either because I don't believe that Kjell ever had a dog with him. My reasons for that? An article I came across a few months ago from an old newspaper that was published back in the 70's. In this article, Kjell is pictured on his ranch with his horses and dog. The article specifically states that the ranch is owned by Kjell Qvale, which is home to his numerous horses and DOG. So while Kjell did have a dog, it was kept at his ranch and not at his multi-million dollar mansion in Pacific Heights.
Armond is simply introducing a K-9 to the situation in order to bat away any suspicion befalling Kjell because if he were to say he came across Mr Kjell Qvale standing on a driveway that was not attached to his own home but was actually a few doors up at the Maple & Jackson Intersects then many people would require Kjell to explain why he was around the corner from a murder scene within minutes of the crime occurring acting highly suspicious by lurking out of sight on the darkened driveway of 3712 when he lives at 3636.
Your comments about there not being a dog are reminiscent of a series of frustrating emails I received in 2007 right around the time the movie came out. A guy calling himself "Bob" and claiming to be a friend of AP contacted me and his first email was just this, "There was no dog." This guy was very skittish. I was never able to establish his credibility. He was afraid of Pelissetti, so he agonized over ocming forward and not coming forward. The consensus among my friends was that he was a phony but my gut told me that if he was faking the fear that he had, he was a world class con man or actor. Very convincing.
Come to think of it, maybe KQ was admitting as much to me when he said in our 2006 meeting that he "only walked a dog twice in his life."
To clarify, AP said to Butterfield that he saw KQ standing in the driveway with his dog. He was "walking" the dog but standing still at the time. Your theory about him waiting for someone to come down Maple is interesting. Never thought of it that way. Plans did go awry that night. The quickest route to 3636 was from Maple and Wash downhill to the home, obviously not from Cherry. But sh*t happened!
Rubislaw32: ''pettax'' has been around for 5 years, and has made 351 posts at Voigt's site. He was used heavily to insult Mike Morford and give him a hard time over this MacGruber candidate-suspect, which stretched to over 3,000 pages of bitter & bad-tempered debate.
Sept 29, 2023 6:35:17 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: It's an interesting area of the law: Ghosting (identity theft). With regard to profiting over theft of a dead person's information or depiction, in the social media arena: The beneficiary of the deceased person's estate, can sue the thief of the depiction.
Sept 29, 2023 6:00:40 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: So, where did Voigt acquire the avatar photo of a slightly sweaty man of about 32, in order to complete the illusion of ''pettax''? Could be Voigt trawls the Obituary sites hunting for a good candidate. Is Tom Voigt a cyber space ''body snatcher'' ?
Sept 29, 2023 5:21:10 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: It all makes sense now: Voigt pulls the glove puppet ''pettax'' out of his box of tricks, in order to insult the sleuthing skills of Mike Morford. pettax: ''Morf couldn't find Zodiac, even if he stood in front of the real deal.''. pettax a.k.a. Tom Voigt.
Sept 29, 2023 4:54:42 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Is this Voigt in meltdown ?: pettax: 'I know this to be true in atleast (sic) one case. The reason I know is because I've asked.'. Apparently Voigt 'liked' that post. No doubt, the person asked was an 'excellent source', like Gold-snatcher aka Blame Blame.
Sept 29, 2023 3:55:31 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: How bad does it have to get, FBI ? Your paid-stooge Reality TV Dave conning a nuclear physicist, Dr Colleen Fitzpatrick ? Recently, you have produced ''Hell Hole'', a bullet casing & a poker chip. Your cringe-worthy stunts will be studied by comedians.
Sept 28, 2023 19:22:41 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: That's a feature of the FBI's cover-up stunts pulled in the last six years since Comey's May 2017 dismissal: FBI always leave a subliminal message for the Zodiac, in order to dissuade him from giving himself up. You are all too predictable, Numpty-FBI.
Sept 28, 2023 18:03:17 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: The Zodiac wasn't attending Riverside when Cheri Jo Bates was murdered. Z's short course had taken place earlier in the year (1966). We can thank the FBI for giving us ''San Bernardino'' as to where Z was residing for his certificate at Riverside College.
Sept 28, 2023 17:32:20 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: The hood at Lake Berryessa ? Everyone seems to proffer an explanation. Mine would be that it was a modified old welder's hood. A clue to Z's familiarity with Riverside College: The Automotive Repairs Dept., where Z took a short course for his certificate.
Sept 28, 2023 17:14:52 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: These imaginary friends of Tom Voigt appear to be on the increase in preponderance again. Whole pages seem to sometimes be simply Voigt talking with his many selves. I suppose, as more of the old regulars leave, he has to make up the numbers with himself.
Sept 28, 2023 15:14:42 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Well, well. The Zodiac-contributor ''pettax'' is known for his grumpiness and never really articulating his gripe. I note at Voigt's site that pettax used the non-existent word ''atleast'' - a ''unique classic'' to Voigt and his glove puppets exclusively.
Sept 28, 2023 14:56:07 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Before the internet, with built-in spell-check programs, most of us who took care in presenting the written word would have a companion dictionary. Z probably didn't bother, and left some of his ''eccentricity'' to chance. They give some welcome clues.
Sept 28, 2023 13:59:47 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: in his head, before writing it down. Then decided how he was going to present that word in writing - with a humorous or entertaining element a priority, because he was seeking attention. The reality is that few of us are ''good spellers'' - most, average.
Sept 28, 2023 13:49:37 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: This business of whether the Zodiac was a poor speller or not, is a little perplexing in itself. An eccentricity perhaps that made Z's writings look a bit odd at times ? Generally, I think the Zodiac was phonetically-minded as such - he heard a word...
Sept 28, 2023 13:44:16 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: What have we been made aware of Honcho ? He is/was a construction worker and cross-dresser who wears a man's grey suit for special occasions. Thought to be about 85 now, Ms Betts believes he is still killing. 1st language is Spanish & poor English speller.
Sept 28, 2023 11:07:18 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: Zodiac-contributor Ms Betts has posted about her perplexity of a woman who thinks Honcho was ''several stalkers''. I thought the term ''Honcho & his boys'' was quite old ? The Sandy Betts Story should be in ''Possible Victims'', if Voigt believes Ms Betts.
Sept 28, 2023 10:44:01 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: ''Pat Boone - his theocratic crap is an obscenity to the rest of the world !''. Is that so, Z ? Boone enjoyed immense chart success in the 1950's & 1960's. In the 1970's, more as a Christian-orientated singer. And almost exclusively in the USA - and UK.
Sept 28, 2023 5:11:54 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: That letter is a self-celebration of Z's return - Los Angeles in actuality, Z's probable regarded home at the time. From where ? Somewhere out in the rest of the world, since that's how he found out about Pat Boone. His July 1978 letter would reveal more.
Sept 28, 2023 2:51:43 GMT -8
Rub--law32: And really, it has to be said, apart from a subliminal Beatles theme, everything about that May 1978 Channel 9 letter was about ''Los Angeles''. Individuals cited for death threats, the Manson connection, and from where he posted it: Disney's Anaheim, L.A.
Sept 28, 2023 2:39:16 GMT -8
Rubislaw32: figures for which in May 1978 he was still showing signs of concealed envy. One consolation though - Z wasn't incarcerated like Manson. Still alive & kicking, but clearly keen to rekindle the fear he once held. Reality ? Z's private life was in turmoil.
Sept 28, 2023 1:54:32 GMT -8